Undoing door bolts, what to use?

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Minkymoo
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Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:35 pm

What size spanner to undo door hinge bolts?


Tudge
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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Tudge » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:00 pm

If you look in the mechanical threads section, there is a list of spanner & thread sizes, at the top as stickies

According to these, the door to a post bolts are 1/4 inch whitworth. :D
1965 2Dr - She's called Lola


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:46 pm

Thanks so much for that, will have a look :D


mogbob
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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:42 am

If the bolts have never been off before , soak the bolt heads with Plus gas ( releasing fluid ) and give the bolt heads a whack with a big hammer ...to shock them / break any rust sealing.
Be aware that inside the A post is a loose metal plate that is threaded to take the bolts...when the last bolt is removed....
the plate WILL DROP.
Take great care to hold the plate in position until the hinge can be moved out of the way and you can then re insert a bolt ...to hold it there.You do not want the job of retrieving the metal from an enclosed metal box !! .

I use two big 6" nails, one on each hinge..it's long enough to go through the hinge and into the A post.You can ease off the door from the hinges and then rest the door ,when you have a suitable gap, to get a bolt back in top and bottom.Reverse the process when re-fitting.
The doors are heavy..unless you work out at the gym....so a second pair of hands or a block of wood and a trolley jack comes in useful !
It is easy to shear the bolts ( and create more problems ) so take time and don't go at it, like a bull in a china shop.Work the bolt back and forth a little at a time.
Bob

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:17 pm

Thanks bob, yes the doors are very heavy, just bought a complete pair and there is no way I would be able yo hang them alone, plus I'm a girl! I need to swop the door cards over which shouldn't be a problem. When you refer to the A frame, which part is this? The doors I have bought still have the hinges on, I think I would be dreaming to think this will just be a five minute job, I have learnt that from previous jobs on the car! How can I sop the metal plate from falling when removing the last bolt?
Also this fell out of the new doors I bought yesterday?!?
Thanks Bob[frame]Image[/frame]


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby aupickup » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:29 pm

there should be a captive plate to hold the door plate in place
well mine has
i know many have rusted out especially the bottom ones

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:57 pm

The A post is the vertical section , on the body, in front of the leading edge of the door.
The B post is the vertical section, on the body,at the rear of the front door.
If it is a four door car... the final post at the rear. back edge of the rear passenger doors, will be the C post.

On a Morris MInor monocoque car body ( i.e one without a separate chassis ) they are typically of a " box like " construction for the greatest strength, to support heavy doors and to stop the whole body crumbling in a crash.

The big nail trick will allow you to move the hinge ( with door attached to it ) away from the A post.The tip of the nail pushed into the box section of the A post stops the metal plate falling.When the gap is 3/5 cm ( 1/ 2 " ) away from the A post ( door still hanging on the back end of the nail ) you can now put one of the removed bolts back and tighten it into the plate.
Two bits of bent wire 90, degrees ( a bit of a metal coat hanger is ideal )are required to " fish" for the holes of the unseen plate within the A post.The pattern of the bolt holes in the metal plate is triangular. matching the hinge configuration, so once two bolts are removed and you start to loosen the third one, the plate will move / twist until it finds it's centre of gravity.That's why you will have to " fish " through the three holes in the A post to get it back to the correct position.

When you fit the new door, it's big nails through the hinges already mounted on the door.Line up the plate with your wire hooks ,leaving them in situ.Offer up the door, pushing the nails right into the A post through the metal plate.Leave your gap
sufficient this time to remove the two retaining bolts ( plates in door retained by the nails ).Close the gap and fit two bolts to
each hinge.Remove the two nails and then fit the last bolts...top and bottom.
Don't tighten the bolts right up tight as this stage as you will want to adjust the door position in the aperture.Get the bolts tight enough to hold the door so that it doesn't sink under it's own weight.That way you can push and pull .. until you get it in the right position.Then fully tighten up.

All this hassle is because ....the plate within the A post should sit / be held in situ/ move about in... by two metal channels top and bottom of the plate.Surprise , surprise after several decades of moisture on unprotected metal, on the majority of cars the bottom ledges have disintegrated/ fallen off.The first notice that you get that this has happened is the clonk you hear when you remove the last bolt.
To get the plate out you have to open up the A post , like a tin of sardines and bash the metal back, having welded in a new ledge.Welded up the hole,rust prevention, primer paint , top coats.replace the wing, front lights wiring, etc., etc
I think you get the general picture.

Door cards
Remove the ones from the "new " doors first.Better to damage them first rather than your correct colour good ones.
There are correct trim removing tools available but with care you can get away with large flat screwdrivers or small old chisels.
The sprung clips holding the door cards in every 10/15 cm ( 5/6 inches ) need to be popped out.Gently lift the door card edge to locate the bottom corner ones to start with.Screwdriver/ chisel each side of the clip and gently lever the card up.You may want to protect paintworkd with a cloth / rag.Work around the perimeter of the door.. it will get easier until all are removed.
You will see how the springs are inserted through holes in the hardboard backing.Clean up any rusty metal clips, replacing clips if broken from the psares you now have.When you are ready to install put a smear of Vaseline on the springs.Hang from the top of the door and have some thin nose pliers to hand.You will have to move/ twist the spring into the correct postion to engage in the door holes.Once in the right postion "slap " the door card with the heel of your hand.There should be a sastifying
noise when it snaps into postion.If you try to force things with the spring in the wrong position you will damage the hardboard and possibly the vynil material on the face of the card.Read expensive to replace !

Spare bit !
I don't immediately recognise this bit I must confess.
When you are as old as I am you learn to accept that you don't know every thing.I would look at the perimeter of the door, trying to marry up the screw/ bolts holes.Something around the lock/ catch area ? It must be a re-in forcing plate of some kind.
One of the experts on the Forum will be along soon I hope.You never stop learning.
" plus I'm a girl "
With a wife, two daughter in laws, two granddaughters and several nieces I'm all for the equality of the sexes.
Good luck with it, take it slowly and safely more importantly.
Bob

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:21 pm

Bob you are a star, thanks for taking the time to explain all to me. I do like to always give things a go myself and in most cases can manage, if not I know a man who can but that's a last resort as I do enjoy this type of thing! I shall ask my neighbour to help out as he has a whole garage full of vintage tools that I can use!
The passenger door on Bertie at the moment just doesn't fit properly so I am hoping that this newer one will, can only try! Luckily these just happen to be the same-ish colour too and a whole lot better condition.
Thanks for all your help, it's made things a lot clearer especially the need to keep hold of the plate!
Victoria[frame]Image[/frame]


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:35 pm

Just found this too, not as helpful as you tho Bob![frame]Image[/frame]


mogbob
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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:13 pm

Victoria
Bertie ? My youngest grandchildren named their big Ford people carrier... " Bertie the bus ".
Your Bertie looks in good shape in the photo.Same colour as my mate's car we restored.I taught him how to weld and fabricate bits.There was " lots to do " , so he was pretty experienced at the end of two years ( OK he did move house in the middle of the restoration ).
Bob

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:53 pm

Looks a lot better in the photos than in real life, only had him 6 months. I used to covet him on my dog walk then I saw him for sale for £500 and couldn't resist, I've spent that again already but he deserves it! The body isn't too bad but the doors are a real mess at the bottom and I managed to get a couple the same colour this weekend via eBay for £100 and they even have the hinges so thought that was pretty good! I'm looking forward,to fitting them, like a challenge! I'm hoping once the new drivers door is on it won't leak when it rains so much and then I shall replace the carpet. This is how the door fits now![frame]Image[/frame]


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby bmcecosse » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:33 am

It would possibly be easier to fit studs to the plate in the A pillar - but still a risk of it falling in. Remedy there could be to drill and tap a couple of additional holes through the A pillar into the plate - and secure it with small countersunk head screws!
ImageImage
Image

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:43 am

Good idea, many thanks!


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby Minkymoo » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:33 pm

Success! Used the 6" nails to hold the plate behind in place, I wouldn't have known that was even there if it wasn't for you guys! New door on and it's a much better fit, a lot of cursing and huffing and puffing it's lined up!
Thanks all, much appreciated, Victoria :D


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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby tysonn » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:51 am

Well done!!!!

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:44 am

Well done girl !! Good on you.What's next on the do list ?
Bob

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby laneychief » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:58 pm

This is great, I'm glad I read this thread. Removing my doors soon to do the bottom repairs, never done it before and would of gone in all guns blazing then swore like a mad man when the plate dropped.

Thanks for this!
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'

Edd, 26, Devon.

mogbob
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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:26 pm

Glad you found it inspiring.It much more preferable than the sinking feeling when you hear the thud of the hidden plate !!
Thank you, your comments make it all worth while.
Bob

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby laneychief » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:24 pm

Your technique worked a treat, didn't have any 6" nails so I used a chainsaw file! Worked the same and the bottom hinge came off![frame]Image[/frame]

Only problem, I only managed to get one bolt out of the top hinge as the rest are so round that my socket was loose like mad on them. Same with the door stay thing, those two Phillips head screws are round!

I've got a little reverse head drill bit thing, it might have to be that way I think, are those Phillips self tappers or is there a bit of metal behind there to catch?!

Thanks again!
'If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same'

Edd, 26, Devon.

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Re: Undoing door bolts, what to use?

Postby mogbob » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:23 pm

Edd
The door check arm plate ( hidden ), attached to the arm is threaded...see http://www.moss-europe.co.ukdiagrams.So nothing to catch / drop.

With the "stuck" bolts and screws I'd try some heat first of all.Blowtorch the tops, apply some PlusGas dismantling fluid whilst
it's still hot and repeat.Do you have an impact driver ? Safety goggles .A hefty whack.. both an ordinary socket and a screwdriver bit should shift it,after the heat treatment, fingers crossed.
Personally I've never got on very well with the easy outs.Where do you go when that jams and shears ?? They are made of very hard steel.
If you have access to MIg Welder you could try welding a new nut to the old one.The extreme heat normally helps to crack it.

Chain saw file , chain saw file ?? Whatever works for you !! I found 6" nails first ha, ha.
Keep moving on, well done.
Bob


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