Wheel nuts

Discuss other problems here.

Moderator: Moderators

markandsuefoss
Minor Friendly
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:49 pm
MMOC Member: No

Wheel nuts

Postby markandsuefoss » Wed May 25, 2016 9:55 pm

This may sound like a daft question, but this is my first minor. The original wheel brace seems a loose fit on the wheel nuts and on the nut that holds the clamp holding the spare wheel (traveler). I have an expanding wheel brace and the 17mm end does not fit and the 19mm end is loose like the wheel brace. So then the nuts are in between and an 18 mm socket fits just fine. Why is the original brace a loose fit and should I use it or the 18mm socket to tighten the nuts. Would that damage them? What torque setting should I use?

philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby philthehill » Thu May 26, 2016 6:29 am

The wheel nuts are imperial not metric.
The correct spanner is 3/8" BSW/9/16" BSF.
The torque is 37 - 39 lb ft.
The wheel brace that comes with the car is most likely worn so resulting in a loose fit - though they were never tight.
Use the correct socket or the wheel nuts will be damaged.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-Drive-Soc ... SwQPlV~alI


IslipMinor
Minor Legend
Posts: 1930
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 9:10 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby IslipMinor » Thu May 26, 2016 10:35 am

The correct size is as Phil says is 3/8" BSW/9/16" BSF, which has an A/F dimension of 0.710" or 18.03mm, so coincidently an 18mm spanner is the right size!

To work on a Minor you will need a set of imperial/inch AF spanners/sockets for the mechanical parts, which use UNF/UNC threads - engine, gearbox, rear axle and some suspension items - and BSF/BSW for anything related to the body, including, originally, some of the suspension mounts, but sometimes these will have been replaced with UNF/UNC threads and nuts over the years.

If you have both sets, you should be well set up for things you need to do on a Minor.
Richard



bmcecosse
Minor Maniac
Posts: 46561
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:24 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby bmcecosse » Thu May 26, 2016 1:29 pm

As above - your 'wheel brace ' (is it also the starting handle?) will be spread/worn. Nothing on a Minor is metric - don't use metric tools on it. By chance the 18mm socket is as Richard says a tiny bit too large, but can be used on the wheel nuts. However 18mm is not a 'preferred' metric size - so they are not so easy to find - but they are about....
ImageImage
Image

markandsuefoss
Minor Friendly
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:49 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby markandsuefoss » Thu May 26, 2016 9:21 pm

Thanks you all for your replies - this is really helpful.

markandsuefoss
Minor Friendly
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:49 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby markandsuefoss » Sun May 29, 2016 6:07 pm

I've ordered sockets, but how do you get on with tyre companies? Do you take along your own socket for them to use? My tyres are good at the moment, but just felt a slight vibration which makes me think the wheels need balancing. Do tyre companies know where to jack up the car? What do you advise? The 'chassis' has been restored so the jacking points are good, but advise me about using a trolley jack and axle stands. At the back I was thinking of putting the jack under the differential and then axle stands under axels themselves. At the front it looks like I'll have to do each side one at a time - jacking up under the lower suspension arm and then putting the stand close to it rather than the chassis member. Does all that sound OK?

SteveClem
Minor Legend
Posts: 1548
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:37 am
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby SteveClem » Sun May 29, 2016 7:15 pm

I wouldn't use Minor jacking points. They are for decoration only!

bmcecosse
Minor Maniac
Posts: 46561
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:24 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby bmcecosse » Sun May 29, 2016 7:49 pm

NEVER EVER use the jacking points.... Unless you are very unlucky - it's only the front wheels that will need 'balancing' Just lift the wheel off the ground and spin the wheel slowly (if the brakes are binding they will need slackening off) and note where the tyre settles at the bottom (chalk) - do it 3 or 4 times. If it always settles at the same point - turn that to 3 o'clock, and add weights at 9 o'clock till the wheel stays still. Simples !! And no expensive visit to a 'tyre place'....... Yes - it's only a 'static' balance - but for Minor speeds and narrow wheels/tyres it is perfectly satisfactory. Ideally - then mark a stud and an adjacent point on the wheel so in future you always put the wheel back on the same orientation. The brake drums themselves are horribly out of balance ! So this method covers drums and wheel/tyre.
ImageImage
Image

markandsuefoss
Minor Friendly
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:49 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby markandsuefoss » Sun May 29, 2016 7:56 pm

What do you do in the event of a puncture? Do you carry a scissor jack then? Am I right in what I say about where to place a trolley jack?

simmitc
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3295
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:43 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby simmitc » Sun May 29, 2016 8:16 pm

To jack the front of the car, use a block of wood between the jack and the car, and place the wood at the front of the chassis leg so that it covers both sides of the leg and extends along the length of the leg a few inches, ideally covering the tie rod front mounting. An alternative is further back under the eye bolt.

To raise the reat of the car with a trolley jack, position the cup under the diff - it's a good fit on most jacks. If using non-trolley jacks then under the thick plate that attaches the samper to the spring is a good place to locate the jack.

Standard safety rules apply, make sure that the car is on level ground and chocked; and that the jack cannot slip. Never work under the car with only a jack to suppoort it, alwyas use axle stands or similar supports.

MikeNash
Minor Addict
Posts: 689
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:09 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby MikeNash » Sun May 29, 2016 9:57 pm

May I ask a further question regarding wheel nuts?
A few years ago I replaced all the nuts on my Trav with new ones (I'm almost certain they came from Bull Motif) after they'd been refitted for a previous owner using air tools at a tyre change ; all had nearly stripped threads. And prompted by this thread I noticed that all these new nuts fit a 11/16 inch AF socket; they're 0.688 inch across the flats. In fact I've only one spare that'll fit a 3/8th Whitworth socket and that's 0.708 inches across the flats. I should add that all the new nuts are the correct conical angle and fit and grip perfectly well.
So it seems that there are other wheel nuts out there on the market that are NOT the original size, which just complicates things for Mark & Sue! Has anyone else come across this?
Regards, MikeN.
Morris Minor, the car of the future. One day they will all look like this!

bmcecosse
Minor Maniac
Posts: 46561
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:24 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby bmcecosse » Tue May 31, 2016 9:30 pm

The Mini wheel nuts are the same thread (3/8" unf) but they have the across flats size you mention. BUT - they have a slightly different taper and should not be used on a Minor. Perhaps your wheels have now 'conformed' to the new taper..... Or perhaps the supplier has had special nuts made.......let's hope so...
ImageImage
Image

MikeNash
Minor Addict
Posts: 689
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:09 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby MikeNash » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:22 am

Thanks for that, Roy; I'll check the taper angle more closely. It's disturbing 'cos as I said above, I bought a full set for the Trav after finding the threads on the existing ones' were badly worn (I actually had a rear wheel come off!) and I had bought them in good faith from one of our major suppliers.
Thanks again and regards to all, MikeN.
Morris Minor, the car of the future. One day they will all look like this!

MikeNash
Minor Addict
Posts: 689
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:09 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby MikeNash » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:59 pm

I've checked and as far as I can tell with a protractor and magnifying glass the two nuts are the same taper.

See here[frame]Image[/frame]
The left hand one is an "original" i.e. 0.708 inches across the flats and fits a 3/8 inch Whitworth socket size while the right hand one is 0.688 inches across the flats and fits a 11/16ths AF socket. Both have the same taper and both fit very well. I'm now certain I bought these from Bull Motif a few years ago, and I think they illustrate the problems for suppliers. For how would they know they are different? Neither feel, weight or appearance is noticeably different and customers like me probably have a modern socket set with everything in it where we just grab a socket, see if it fits and if it doesn't such change it till one does. So we don't tell them. And does it matter? Practically not I think, but morally, well yes, at least a bit.
Regards, MikeN.
Morris Minor, the car of the future. One day they will all look like this!

bmcecosse
Minor Maniac
Posts: 46561
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:24 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Wheel nuts

Postby bmcecosse » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:31 pm

Good - they probably turned the Mini nuts to the correct taper - or had them specially made. Looks fine there, but a general warning to NOT use Mini nuts on Minor wheels.
ImageImage
Image


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests