My first afternoon Working on Margaret

[Randy Roberson]

HI, after spending a beautiful afternoon beginning work on Margaret, I have some questions: what is the correct type of wrenches, English or metric? I assumed English, but there were some bolts and nuts I could not get either type of wrench to fit correctly. I was removing the front apron and bumper. I broke the two cast-metal bright trim pieces on either side of the grill, because the screws were corroded, etc., are replacements available? I hate to break stuff. The body tag, which is located low on the left side, near the bumper support tube, is nearly corroded away; I can just make out Nuffield. Is a reproduction available? What did this say, the body manufacture is my guess. When you are removing rusted panels, such as floor, how do you determine if a panel is too far gone and must be replaced?
I will be removing the engine and transmission next, please advise in general what I need to take loose.
Thanks, and regards to all:)

[Willie]

Lo, the Minors have a mixture of sizes but if you had
a comprehensive socket set made up of Metric and
AF sizes you should be ok. The open ended spanners
are mainly AF with the odd Whitworth or BSF sizes.
To manage the odd ones you need a good adjustable
spanner. There are also a few BA nuts on the electrical
fittings!!!
Removing the engine/gearbox.....take them out as one
lump. drain the gearbox before removing the prop-shaft,
remove the radiator(4 bolts), remove the speedo cable
at the gearbox end, remove the exhaust system(you need
it out of the way for the welding anyway), Disconnect the
clutch operating mechanism which is fitted between the
chassis leg and the gearbox. YOu can take the manifold
off complete with the carburettor and tie it to one side,or
strip it if you like. The front engine mounting towers
can be difficult to refit so suggest you undo the rubber
mount on the distributor side of the engine but leave
the whole mount on the manifold side and undo it right
at the bottom where it is bolted to the engine bay floor.
don't forget to undo the gearbox mounting rubbers and
there should be a short cable between the gearbox and
its' cross member which must be undone.
That's my contribution, there will be several more advisers.
Enjoy Willie

[Cam]

Randy,

I have a set of AF, metric and whitworth, and that pretty much does everything. I have found that a socket set, ring and open ended spanners are needed in all three sizes!!

the two cast-metal bright trim pieces on either side of the grille are called "hockey sticks" and are readily available (I broke mine too!!), as are the vehicle ID plates.

When thinking of removing rusted panels you have to weigh up how much effort is involved in replacing it as opposed to repairing it, how much the new panel costs, how easy it is to get the panel, and how far gone it is.

Also, if you want to do a restoration job or just "patch 'n go".

What I tend to do is patch small holes, but any large awkward rust holes or multiple rust holes, the panel is renewed.

With regard to engine removal, I think that Willie pretty much summed it up, although I take the bonnet off, the gearbox cross member off, the entire front grille panel (including radiator) and leave all the ancillaries on (except the exhaust of course!!), attach the two lifting eyes onto the rocker cover bolts and take it out in one lump.

Actually, it is not as bad as it sounds, and it does not take too long either.

When you re-install the engine follow Willie's advice with regard to the front engine mount towers or you will be messing around and swearing for most of the day!!!

Good luck!!

[Randy Roberson]

Thanks, Willie and Cam, for the info, it is great to have a source of information when one is delving into the unknown.
Please explain more about "AF" spanners (wrenches). I know 'English' (inch) and metric. I haven't a clue where to find any other types of wrenches in U.S. I know about Whitworth: pressure test ports on pipeline-gas compressors in the U.S. use a "modified Whitworth" thread, so nothing else can be attached to them except the correct testing equipment.
This raises a larger question in my mind: where will I find the correct bolts, etc., to replace those I break or lose, and how does one know what size goes where? Is there a listing for the fasteners in a Minor and what size goes where?
Guess I need to worry about this only after I make successful rust repairs to the shell.
Thanks and Best Regards to you all,
Randy

[Cam]

Randy,

If you are finding it difficult to locate whitworth spanners and the broken nuts and bolts in the US, then you could always try buying them in the UK. Although there must be specialist suppliers, it's just a question of finding them!!

You could try:
http://www.frost.co.uk

They do whitworth spanners.

And for the nuts & bolts, any of the specialist Moggy suppliers: ESM, Bull motif, Charles Ware, Morris minor centre (bath) and (Birmingham).

Also have a look at:
http://www.internationalcockpitclub.org ... hreads.htm

for an explanation of sizes.

The english, imperial, or AF are measured in Inches Across the Flats of the nut.

The metric are also measured in the same way, but obviously in millimetres.

The Whitworth (or BSF) are measured across the diameter of the threaded section of the bolt, which makes spanner selection a pain (which is why they changed it).

If you need any further info on supplier contacts in the UK, just ask!!

[Kevin]

Hi Randy, the AF spanners should not be a problem for you as the term originates form your side of the pond, I quote an example with no offence intended
Our impudent rebel colony in America ;-) introduced their own standards in 1918 with the National Fine (NF) and National Coarse (NC) threads approved by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). These were still imperial sizes, and had pitch sizes measured in teeth per inch (TPI), but the thread form had an included angle of 60 degrees, and the spanner size was determined by the 'across flats' measurement of the hex bar from which the bolt was formed. Be careful not to confuse the letters AF when used to mean 'across flats', with AF used (erroneously) to indicate 'American Fine' thread. This is actually 'National Fine' and should be called NF or UNF.
This was taken from a site with references to all spanner types, I hope this is of help

[olonas]

An excellent source (in the U.K.) for Morris Minor size nuts, bolts etc are www.namrick.co.uk They offer worldwide mail order service.

[Andy Hunter]

The body plate would have read 'Nuffield Metal Products'. As you suspected this was the name of the company that fabricated the body. MNP was of course part of the Nuffield Organisation owned by Lord Nuffield, aka William Morris.

I've never seen any of these plates for sale although it wouldn't suprise me if you could get them somewhere.