My Car wont start

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raseys
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My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:01 pm

HI I HAVE A 1964 MORRIS 1000 SALOON 2DR. I HAVNT USED HER FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS BUT KEPT GOING TO THE GARAHE AND STARTING HER AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. THEN I NEEDED TO USE HER TO GET TO WORK, DONE ABOUT 150 MILES IN HER AND WENT TO GO TO WORK WEDNESDAY 17TH AND SHE WOULD NOT START. I HAVE HAD MY GRANDAD LOOK AT HER WITH ME AND WE HAVE CHECKED ALL LIGICAL PARTS.
1) THERE IS A SPARK AT ALL PLUGS
2) FUEL PUMP IS WORKING
3) BATTERY IS CHARGED
4) COMPRESSION IS CORRECT AT ALL CYLINDERS
5) POWER IS CORRECT AT COIL
6) POINTS LOOK OKAY I BELIEVE
7) POINTS ARE SPARKING (IM NOT SURE IF THEY ARE MEANT TO BE BUT MY GRANDAD SAYS THEY ARE)
8) FUEL IS GETTING TO FLOAT CHAMBER
IM 17 WITH LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF MECHANICS BUT AM LEARNING THROUGH MY APPRENTICSHIP IN HGV MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR. HELP NEED THE CAR TO GET TO WORK ASAP BUT DO HAVE 125 I AM USING IN MEAN TIME. HELP NEEDED ASAP

palacebear
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby palacebear » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:10 pm

Three things...
1. Is the spark strong and blue in colour at each plug? If it's a weak yellowish colour, cleaning and re-gaping the plugs, or replacing them may be the answer.

2. Is fuel getting through the carb into the engine?

3. Has the choke stuck 'on'? (I had this problem last year... took a week of messing about with electrics before I noticed).

There are two other threads on the forum, both currently active, on the 'my car won't start' topic. Maybe worth reading through them, if you haven't already.
1956 4-door called Max

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:23 pm

1) spark is weak and yellow but have tried cleaning them and still no luck
2) have checked that fuel is getting to the carb but will have to check that it is getting through the carb itself
3) the choke isn't sticking on the out side of the carb but It did seem to be rich when I checked the plugs today.proably wont get chance to look again until weekend but till see if i can look at the carb tomorrow evening after work. have orrdered new condensor just in case. have looked at those threads and they have brought me no luck if I'm honest :D

palacebear
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby palacebear » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:31 pm

Best advice, as ever, is to do one thing at a time. As you've started with electrics, work systematically through that before turning to the fuel system. I would say that the weak spark needs to be addressed first.

Be aware that many new condensors, and other ignition components, are not always the best quality. If your finances allow, the best kit comes from Distributor Doctor.
1956 4-door called Max

oliver90owner
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby oliver90owner » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:11 pm

Your weak spark would appear to be the problem.

There should be a current of about 4A through the coil while the points are closed. If there is a high resistance connection reducing that current, the spark energy will be reduced. Possible ‘bottlenecks’ could be before or after the coil.

The condenser should be effectively open circuit. Basic testing of the device is usually by connecting a multimeter (on ohms setting) across it (while out of circuit) when it should initially show a low resistance rising towards several Mohms.

Checking to see if there is a strong blue spark at the king lead is the way to go, as there are other parts of the system which can reduce the spark energy. The spark should easily jump a gap of 6mm and likely more than 9-10mm. If no strong blue spark at the coil king lead, possible faults (connections, rotor arm, plugs leads, distributor cap) faults cannot be easily isolated, and that can lead to multiple wastes of time and expense - by swapping parts for perfectly good items.

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:26 pm

Okay will check these as soon as I get chance and should I replace the plugs?

palacebear
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby palacebear » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:38 pm

Plug replacement... you'll have to judge their condition. If the electrodes look excessively burnt or receding then definitely. If you don't know how long since they were last changed (they should be good for approx 12000 miles normal use) then consider replacing them with quality ones for peace of mind.
1956 4-door called Max

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:42 pm

Hi my grandad has spent since 2009 restoring the car and it has only had its mot since September but I don’t know how old they are so I will pick up some after work tomorrow for peace of mind and see how that goes will let you know

myoldjalopy
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:49 pm

Well, a set of new plugs (don't forget to set the gaps correctly - 25 thou) won't break the bank but, as advised above, don't go randomly replacing bits ad infinitum.
As Oliver 90 suggests, if the spark is weak/yellowish at the plugs I would pull the king lead off the dizzy and test that spark against the engine block. If it is still weak and yellow then the problem is probably not the dizzy cap, rotor, HT leads or plugs. If the king lead does give a strong blue spark, then at least you have isolated the problem to the aforementioned dizzy cap, rotor, HT leads (although it is unlikely all four leads would fail at the same time) or plugs (of course, your new plugs will eliminate this possibility). Try this king lead test first and report back and we can help you further.

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:51 pm

hi reporting back and I have fitted a new set of plugs this evening and we did get some firing of the engine but no more than about 2 seconds at a time but now she is turning over very slowly when I try to start her, I will be checking the king lead in a bit and the power to the starter motor. I also have 11.80v going into the coil and 0.15v coming out is this correct. for the king lead test I'm guessing its the end that's in the coil I need to take out and hold against the engine block. just check the coil 3.5 ohms going through it

myoldjalopy
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:35 pm

Yes, the king lead runs from the coil to the distributor cap. Leave the end connected to the coil in situ and pull the other end from the dizzy to do this test.
But it sounds like your battery may be discharged - and I would expect 12.6v-ish at both low tension terminals of the coil........ 0.15v doesn't sound right at all. Charge the battery if you can and check again....

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:41 pm

okay will go try that now however I think the battery is slightly down on charge due to the fact I have being trying to start her as I charged her at the weekend end before trying anything else.

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:21 pm

have tried the king lead test and it is just jumping a 6mm gap and I have re tested the battery its now 9.80v and back on charge also the coil is now coming through as 9.80v same as the battery .

kennatt
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby kennatt » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:36 pm

petrol goes off,and will be difficult to fire up, although after 4 months should still be reasonable Take air filter off and get an egg cup full of new petrol and pour it in to the mouth of the carb and see if it will now run,if it runs then electrics ok and suspect no petrol in carb bowl(have you looked inside .... three screws on top and lift lid off)or petrol gone bad ,smell it, if its really gone well off it smells a bit like paint thinners not strong petrol smell. fill with new fresh petrol and try again.

oliver90owner
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby oliver90owner » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:52 pm

raseys wrote:... just check the coil 3.5 ohms going through it
Ohms is a measure of resistance, not current. There should be a current through the coil commensurate with Ohm’s Law, but that is provided there is no other appreciable resistance in the circuit (points, electrical connections, conductors). It only needs to be one point of high resistance to limit the current severely, although it appears, from your voltage measurements, all is well on that score.

As at (I think) reply number two where you were asked about the spark - the spark from the king lead should be a strong blue spark.

Until you have a strong blue spark, there is no point in churning the engine over on the starter motor. Opening the points with an insulated screwdriver is much safer, easier on the battery and won't overheat the starter motor or flood the engine with highly flammable fuel!

myoldjalopy
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:59 pm

Yes - you say you have a spark at the king lead, but don't mention its quality....so, is it a good blue spark, as opposed to the weak yellow spark you say you were getting at the plugs? That is the crucial question.

If you are now getting identical readings at both coil low tension connections, but not before, you may have a poor connection(s) at the coil......or the coil is playing up......but, one step at a time - what is the quality of the spark at the king lead as opposed to at the plugs?

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:32 pm

hi the spark is a blue spark but will only just jump a 6mm gap. I have also checked the timiimg and it does seems to be a bit out so will adjust that tomorrow to see if we get any progress

myoldjalopy
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby myoldjalopy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:02 pm

If the timing is slightly out, it won't help, but you say it was running OK before and we assume you haven't altered it since.

What we seem to have is a blue spark at the king lead (and 6mm should be OK), but weak, yellow ones at the (new)plugs. That suggests a problem in the distributor. Check the dizzy cap thus:

1. check it is not cracked at all
2. check there are no signs of tracking on the inside of the cap and that it is good and clean. The four metal contacts should not look badly burnt/worn out
3. check the carbon bush in the centre of the cap is not badly worn and moves back freely when you push it in with your finger
4. check it is secured firmly by the two clips

Rotor arms can play up intermittently. Certainly the king lead held (with insulated pliers) about 6mm from the brass part of the rotor should not spark. If it does, it is faulty. Make sure the brass edge of the rotor is clean.

It is unlikely all four plug leads would develop a fault at the same time but make sure they are all firmly connected to the dizzy cap and not showing any signs of corrosion at their connections or perishing along the leads.

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:42 pm

Hi as to the colour of the spark at the plugs I put new plugs in last night and this has improved the colour although I don’t suspect it’ll be the best, will give more of an update after I have finished work and have adjusted the timing

raseys
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Re: My Car wont start

Postby raseys » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:12 pm

Timing adjusted and is looks good now am getting a timing checking device on weekend to be sure and will be checking gaps on points again then. Have checked the power in the battery it was reading 11.89 however when I checked the power at the coil it was reading 0.00. Havnt xhecked the plugs yet but could no power at the cool mean that the coil is a dud coil?


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