Morris Minor Owners Club

could no power at the cool mean that the coil is a dud coil?

Lots of things could, but very unlikely. Not if you are checking the voltage to the coil. Not unless you are checking the earth side of the coil while open circuit on that side. The voltage, measured across the coil terminals at open circuit, would be zero anyway. So, unless you post precisely where you connected your probes, I cannot give a definitive answer to your question. As you have a spark it is unlikely a sensible test to determine the quality of the coil.

You mean voltage when reading the battery power? 11.9V for fully charged battery, after a suitable rest period (after the charging circuit has been removed), would indicate a possible dead battery to me. Alternatively, your measurement may be suspect.

I would think the voltage, while cranking, is poor if that is the true battery voltage when fully charged. That is when power (the product of Volts and Amps) is being consumed at a high rate. A battery can read 12V while having insufficient capacity (think here - a 12V torch batterry cannot supply sufficient power for starting a car engine)

One reason why I said the king lead test should be carried out by opening the points with an insulated screwdriver - the power taken from the battery should then only be in the region of 40W.

Have just taken the starter motor off as it didn’t seem to be engaging, am wondering if it should be like this?also Oliver90owner can I have that in laymen’s terms as I’m still very new to this and my job and I’m still learning

Starter not engaging? Is it spinning slowly? If yes that that reinforces a flat battery. With a well charged battery the starter spins quickly which forces the bendix down the shaft to engage with the flywheel ring gear. If the starter spins too slowly then the bendix never reaches the ring gear.

In layman’s terms for my current assessment: you have likely wasted three days trying to start the engine using a battery which is worn out and incapable of supplying a sufficient spark energy at cranking speed. Old fuel may have exacerbated the situation as well as flooding with fuel. I now strongly suspect that you only needed a good battery to get it running. Things may be further complicated by poor electrical connections and/ or loss of some HT energy due to damp. None of these help to get an engine started from cold (and add to that a cold battery!).

Try a jump start using a battery of known reliability.

RAB

Hi okay jumping the car will have to wait until weekend as will need parents car todo it as for the motor it spins very quickly without engaging

you don't need a TIMING CHECKER ,simply take plugs out so you can turn engine by hand (put a spanner on bottom pulley bolt turn it clockwise) place thumb onto the hole in number One (The front cylinder) turn engine till you feel it being pushed off by the compression indicating that number one piston is coming up onto top dead centre on firing stroke . Then look at bottom pulley and move engine back and forwards until marks on pulley and front cover line up. Take cap off distributor and make sure rotor is pointing at the terminal of plug lead no. one. The engine is now timed as near as you will get it at this stage. Forget spending money on any timing checker,you've just done it free. Don't know what checker you are talking about but you probably have to do the above first anyway.

Fine tuning can be done later,get it running and ask about doing that later.

Do you have a workshop manual,if not do a search its there on the net free to download not allowed to give you the site address Mods will jump all over it. .Its very easy to follow instructions in the manual,remember the minor engine is a very simple design nothing complicated about it ,its a case of read how to do it then just do it,well almost as simple as that. good luck

If you have time before the weekend jump start, go over all ignition electrical connections and HT leads to make sure no loose/corroded connections, also check/clean battery connections and gearbox earth strap, re-check the points condition and gap and check over the dizzy cap and rotor as I previously suggested. Then you have the best chance of starting if it is just a poor battery. And have some fresh fuel handy to chuck down the carb in case your fuel has gone off a bit. It is almost bound to be a simple fix if the car was running OK before - you just haven't found it yet........

hey people, took the battery to work today and had it tested and it said it needed replacing so have replaced it and at first we started but within 10 seconds it had cut out and wouldn't start again so I have left her for about half an hour and she did the same thing again and then wouldn't start. gunna try jumping her tomorrow morning . is there anything abovious I am missing. gaps in plugs and between the points are correct. really stuck now don't know where to go.

If it runs a bit and then stops, it sort of points to fuel starvation IMHO.

Phil

raseys wrote: is there anything abovious I am missing.

You seem to be ignoring advice, or if you are not, you are not reporting back on the outcome of the tests/checks. I can only repeat what I said earlier, viz:

What we seem to have is a blue spark at the king lead (and 6mm should be OK), but weak, yellow ones at the (new)plugs. That suggests a problem in the distributor. Check the dizzy cap thus:

1. check it is not cracked at all
2. check there are no signs of tracking on the inside of the cap and that it is good and clean. The four metal contacts should not look badly burnt/worn out
3. check the carbon bush in the centre of the cap is not badly worn and moves back freely when you push it in with your finger
4. check it is secured firmly by the two clips

Rotor arms can play up intermittently. A dodgy rotor with a loose rivet will certainly give the symptoms you report today - it has happened to my car in the past. Solution? A good, red rotor arm from Distributor Doctor. Certainly the king lead held (with insulated pliers) about 6mm from the brass part of the rotor should not spark. If it does, it is faulty. Make sure the brass edge of the rotor is clean.

It is unlikely all four plug leads would develop a fault at the same time but make sure they are all firmly connected to the dizzy cap and not showing any signs of corrosion at their connections or perishing along the leads.
Go over all ignition electrical connections and HT leads to make sure no loose/corroded connections, also check/clean battery connections and gearbox earth strap. Have some fresh fuel handy to chuck down the carb in case your fuel has gone off a bit.........

When you first switch on, does the fuel pump make a ticking sounds? When the engine stops, is the pump still ticking? If you hit it does it start ticking again?
You could try a new condenser as they do sometimes fail when warm and work when cool, but 10 seconds running is unlikely to make it warm.

Go about this systematically.

It starts. It stops. It had sparks when it started but does it have sparks when it stops?

A good spark at the plugs, when it stops, simply avoids further worries with the ignition system. A very simple diagnostic check.

If no spark when it stops, there is no point in interfering with the fuel system.

Keep it simple.

RAB

before messing any further,just to eliminate the igniton switch, they do sometimes become worn and faulty,Remove white wire from coil and run a wire from positive side of battery to the terminal on coil leave the B/w lead to distributor in place,see if it now starts and runs if so suspect the switch,you will need to remove wire to stop car and don't leave it on for any length of time with the engine not running it will cause coil to overheat.

bin the points, condenser (the fault), cap and leads.

buy a complete electronic kit from either simonbbc or accuspark. with a fully charged battery (or new one), fuel getting to the carb, the car will start.

Ampwhu,

While an electronic ignition module is an option to replace the well tried and tested Kettering system, your advice would be useless if the fault happens to be upstream of the contact points! Kennatt’s suggestion would be a means of bypassing the wiring loom and ignition switch if the fault is with the ignition system.

But it still remains a priority to check for spark when the engine stops. That is the simplest definitive diagnosis for determining if the fault is electrical or other.

I rest my case and will go away, as the advice offered does not help to determine the fault but rather revolves around guessing the remedy without knowing the cause.

RAB

the car was running fine whilst the owner was using it. all of a sudden it has stopped. it will be electrical no doubt. if there is fuel to the carb, it will be nothing else.

kennatt wrote:before messing any further,just to eliminate the igniton switch, they do sometimes become worn and faulty,Remove white wire from coil and run a wire from positive side of battery to the terminal on coil leave the B/w lead to distributor in place,see if it now starts and runs if so suspect the switch,you will need to remove wire to stop car and don't leave it on for any length of time with the engine not running it will cause coil to overheat.

This test will bypass the wiring/connections between the battery and the coil (including the ignition switch) and thus determine whether the fault is in this section of the electrical circuit or not. However, we don't know if it is a +ive or -ive earth car. Running a wire between the positive side of the battery and the coil would be if it is a -ive earth car. So safer to say between the non-earth battery post and the SW connection of the coil.

Also, I really wouldn't advise the expense of replacing the whole dizzy set up with an electronic one if, by systematic tests, it can be proved it is merely the dizzy cap or rotor arm, (unlikely all HT leads and plugs would develop a fault at the same time). I suggest focussing here because the OP says he had a good, blue spark at the king lead and weak, yellow ones at the plugs.

A clue to the state of the condensor will be if the points look badly burnt and pitted. It is a simple procedure to check the condition of the points and their gap and make sure the wiring between the coil and the points set up is all good.

hi people I jump started the car yesterday, she started then and didn't have another problem starting her all day, went to go out in her this morning and wouldn't start unless I jumped her at which point she started fine and has started fine all day will see if she needs jumping before I go to work in her tomorrow morning and let you know

Needs a new battery perhaps?

If the car won't start, check the battery is OK or Are the battery cables tight and not corroded? , If the car doesn't start with the automatic transmission in "Park," does it start in "Neutral"? Sometimes a car won't start in "Park" but starts in "Neutral" because of a problem with a neutral safety switch.and second thing when the fuel gauge isn't working properly and the car runs out of fuel with the fuel gauge still showing some fuel left.