poor brakes!

[Blaggers]

Hi&nbsp; Have a 1967 Saloon with soggy brakes.&nbsp; Have renewed all shoes and pistons, bled twice and adjusted till the cows come home but still the pedal travels four to five inches before any contact is made.<BR><BR>Would welcome all thoughts and ideas<BR><BR>Blaggers

[Dr Dave]

Hi, I recently had the same expirence renewed everything and I mean everything. New shoes, cylinders, drums, brake pipes, and an overhaul kit in the master cylinder.<BR>Had the same problem bled and adjusted till&nbsp;I was blue in the face, I knew that the new shoes would take some time to "bed in" but the brake pedal just didn't feel right. Anyway I solved my problem by placing a&nbsp;clamp o&shy;n&nbsp;each flexi hose in turn&nbsp;just to see if there was any difference at each wheel. The front brakes seemed OK but when I put a clamp o&shy;n the flexi to the rear brakes&nbsp;it&nbsp;made the pedal "feel about right" so&nbsp;I figured the problem lay in the rear brakes and with the help of a friend bled the rears up again and lo and behold got just a little bit of air out of each side, not much but enough to make the pedal feel right when I&nbsp;tried again.<BR>One thing to note though is that previously when I bled them I used a "self bleed" container where you are supposed to be able to do it alone, I always&nbsp;prefer&nbsp;to have the help of someone who can keep the pedal pressed down when you close the bleed nipple and this time it seemed to cure the problem.&nbsp;<BR>Ps. there is something wrong with the script o&shy;n this page I just reviewed it and there are several&nbsp;letters appearing that I haven't typed.<BR><BR>Any way good luck with the brakes&nbsp;

[Willie]

GENTS......TO AVOID THE EXTRA CHARACTERS WHICH APPEAR IN
YOUR POSTS ON THIS NEW BOARD, (SEEABOVE) TICK 'CANCEL' WHEN THE "VISUAL MODE" BOX APPEARS
WILLIE

[Willie]

Lo, the question is...does the pedal feel hard when it does eventually
make contact or is it spongey?? If it is your flexy pipes it will not feel
solid. Also, does the pedal bite earlier if you rapidly pump it?
Willie

[rayofleamington]

This sounds rather familiar! I never found it easy to bleed a Moggy on my own.
What I did after a lot of cursing was to ignore all the '1 way valve easybleed' kits and just used a tube from the bleed nipple into the fluid in the jam jar.
Then it takes quite a few pumps to get fresh fluid through. After that, progressively close the bleed screw giving it a few pumps each time - The pedal gives more resistance as the bleed nipple is nearly closed.
And on the last time it takes a huge effort to push the pedal too the floor. Then close the nipple fully.
This method has worked well for me in the last few years. (especially as the jobs seem to take longer than expected and I'd rather get things finished before going to bed - not many people want to help you bleed brakes at 11pm )

I'm about to try it yet again as I bought another 'pet rescue' minor last weekend. I have adjused the brakes tight but the pedal still travels nearly to the floor. If you press it twice, it is firm and the travel is OK and the wheels will lock, so I expected it only needed the shoes to be adjusted - Sadly no.

[Willie]

RAYOFL....if you had air in there the pedal would NEVER go hard,
it would feel spongey no matter how hard you pumped. As you say,
your symptoms suggest brake shoe adjustment is required...I wonder
if your car has the classic "didn't slacken off the hand brake cables
before the initial setting up of the brakes" syndrome?? OR the bulging
flexipipe?
Willie

[rayofleamington]

I agree - A firm pedal would normally not be there if there's any air in the pipes!
I didn't adjust the handbrake myself, so that's on my list of suspicions, and I need to give the handbrake cables a good check.
Having said that however, I didn't think the handbrake setting would give 'long travel' on the brake pedal, as there would be no remaing force to push the hydraulic pistons back even if the handbrake part of the piston was not fully back?? I of course have an open mind on it and would be very happy if that is the cause.
.........If so, it could easily apply to those folks who started this topic.
Shame it's 11:30pm and I'm off to Germany again this week - I'd like to check that out ASAP.

(ps - the pedal travel didn't fail the MOT!! despite being nearly to the floor on first press. Maybe it was because it failed on 10 other things he'd catch it next time round or maybe he'd pressed it recently enough that it was still OK when he was looking at it)

[rayofleamington]

For you other lads with brake bleeding difficulties - I remembered another tip. If the wheel cyliders are new, dont just bung em on. Firstly fit the pipe, then press the pedal to push fluid into the cylinder. Then use a small G-clamp (G-Cramp?) to push the piston back to it's stop. Do that 2 or 3 times and yopu should have made sure there is no residual air trapped in the wheel cylinders. Don't leave the G-clamp on when pushing the pedal though, as you may well snap it!

Hmm. My new 'pet-rescue' Minor is trying to thwart me! I'd not checked the brake fluid due to excessive number of carpets + rounded off master cylinder cap.
Just looked today to find it was empty .
I guess the nearly empty bottle of fluid in the boot from the previous owner should have been a big clue!
Well it can't have been empty for long as the brakes pedal was still hard - I'll give it a run in the back lane soon to see if having some fluid has given it a short term fix.
It looks like there's more to this 'quick doer upper' than just 4 weeks of welding (all sills, centre bearer, 4 bumpstops, rear chassis extensions..) + 4 new dampers & 1 new kingpin, 2 new wings, drivers door...

[James - St. Helens]

Having done brake lines, wheel cylinders, brake shoes, master cylinder rebuild for a friend. The brakes after being bleed felt spongy. We took the car to the local MOT Station for them to test the brakes. The results where better than the MOT standard. It only cost £5 but it was money well spent.

The one tip I was give with doing the complete brakes was to fill the system will fluid and leave over night to settle.

James.

[Kevin]

Another Tip the best of the one man kits is the one that works by using the spare tyre to keep an even pressure behind the fluid, and don`t forget to re-inflate the tyre afterwards

[olonas]

Gunson's Eezibleed. But a connector has to be made up to fit master cylinder. I used an old cap drilled and tapped to accept the connection.