Smiths External Water Pump advice needed.

for those with Series MM sidevalve cars produced between September 1948 and February 1953
Forum rules
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
Post Reply
Squeezebox
Minor Friendly
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: North West
MMOC Member: No

Smiths External Water Pump advice needed.

Post by Squeezebox »

I posted this query earlier in the general mechanical section in error - I'm trying to rebuild what had been a siezed up Smiths water pump for my MM. I've got it stripped down and need to find a replacement for a rubber seal that runs on the main shaft. There is too little of the old one left to make any kind of accurate identification. Does anyone know if there is a replacement or compatible seal still available, and if so what it's reference is?

Additonally, upon removing the wick oiler I was suprised that the hole didn't continue through the brass bearing to the shaft. Is this correct?

Mike
Mike Gott. 1968 4-door saloon, Ariel and Velocette motorcycles - and a 5 ton Ruston and Hornsby narrow gauge railway loco........
mike.perry
Series MM Registrar
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Reading
MMOC Member: No

Post by mike.perry »

Try E P Services, Wolverhampton, tel 01902 452914, they deal specifically with water pump repairs.
[sig]3580[/sig]
Pyoor_Kate
Minor Addict
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
Location: Washington State, US.
MMOC Member: No

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Without looking or knowing anything about it, is it a sintered bearing? My (desk) fan has one of them with a little wick oiler.
Last edited by Pyoor_Kate on Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
rayofleamington
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7679
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:55 pm
Location: LEAMINGTON SPA
MMOC Member: No

Post by rayofleamington »

if the bearing is porous, that would explain why it doesn't need a through hole.

As for the shaft seal, that's the most problematic part of any electric pump! If you measure the shaft and the outside diameter of the seal and the length, you might get lucky.
Up to about 10 years ago most seals were still made with imperial sizes. Over the last decade there's been a strong shift to metric (even affecting the USA!), but the imperial are still available as spares etc..

There are some good modern electric water pumps (to allow water circulation after you turn the engine off) - my favourite was one from a Focus Turbo development car where the pump was driven by magnets through a plastic housing to eliminate the need for a shaft seal.
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(
Onne
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3441
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:50 pm
Location: Mapperley Nottingham
MMOC Member: No

Post by Onne »

I think this waterpump is the one for the heater isn't it? The one driven from the fan belt, clamped on with a spring to ensure circulation through the heater matrix?
Onne van der S. MMOCno 60520 Moderator
2dr 1971 White DAF 55 (with hopefully a 1600cc engine soon)
2dr 1973 Bergina (DAF 44)
2dr Estate 1975 DAF 46 in red
2dr saloon 1972 DAF 44 in Mimosa
stevey
Minor Legend
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:59 am
Location: Northern Ireland
MMOC Member: Yes

Post by stevey »

''Without looking or knowing anything about it''

its this isnt it?<br>Image<br>

Squeezebox
Minor Friendly
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: North West
MMOC Member: No

Post by Squeezebox »

Yes - thats the item in question.

Mike
Mike Gott. 1968 4-door saloon, Ariel and Velocette motorcycles - and a 5 ton Ruston and Hornsby narrow gauge railway loco........
mike.perry
Series MM Registrar
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Reading
MMOC Member: No

Post by mike.perry »

Your 52 MM should have the later engine with provision for a water pump. Or have you got the early engine fitted?
[sig]3580[/sig]
wimor
Minor Friendly
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:18 pm
Location: The Netherlands
MMOC Member: No

Post by wimor »

This is the later engine with provision for a water pump. In this photo with cover plate.

Image
[sig]1346[/sig]http://www.morrisminorclub.nl/Home.htm
Squeezebox
Minor Friendly
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: North West
MMOC Member: No

Post by Squeezebox »

mike.perry wrote:Your 52 MM should have the later engine with provision for a water pump. Or have you got the early engine fitted?
Yes - an earlier engine. It's painted gold but whether that means that it's a "Goldseal" or just one that somebody has painted gold is anybody's guess! It runs well, and that's what matters. Obviously if I can at some point get my hands on a correct engine with a water pump that would be good but an advert in the club mag a few months back didn't bring forth anything. The heater unit is still in the car, incidentally.

Mike
Mike Gott. 1968 4-door saloon, Ariel and Velocette motorcycles - and a 5 ton Ruston and Hornsby narrow gauge railway loco........
mike.perry
Series MM Registrar
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Reading
MMOC Member: No

Post by mike.perry »

The early heaters are pretty hard to come by so if you have an early engine that goes well then you should get best use of them. Have you got all the bits for the heater. The company I sent you should be able to sort out any problems as all they do is water pumps. They repaired mine and Graham's and I think they have done some for club spares, all later type admitted.
[sig]3580[/sig]
Squeezebox
Minor Friendly
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: North West
MMOC Member: No

Post by Squeezebox »

I'll give them a call. Incidentally, the MM ran superbly yesterday up the A6 on a round trip to the Lancs Rally at the Leighton Hall classic car and motorcycle event near Carnforth. There was one other MM there, a '53 with a water pump engine. There was however a Smiths pump on view fitted to a Ford Pop.

Mike
Mike Gott. 1968 4-door saloon, Ariel and Velocette motorcycles - and a 5 ton Ruston and Hornsby narrow gauge railway loco........
Post Reply