ignition timing

[rustbucket]

same old problem but here goes
ive a 662dr saloon 1098
got the engine back together and started to time the engine
do'nt like stobe lights so i use a 12v bulb on the points.
set the crank pulley at 3deg moved dizzy till the bulb lights like the book says and it runs awful.
dosent pull and coughs and farts.
i keep advancing the timing and have ended up at 11deg btdc.
pulls a lot better (like a train) in 4th with a lot less spluttering.
still no pinking.!!!!
how far should i go.?
new points, condenser, ht leads,vacume pipe, new needle in the carb and new jet.( seems a bit rich )
running on fuel addative as well
is 11degs too much?
or is it the over rich fuel?
will the addative richen the fuel?
lost now.

[simmitc]

Is the dizzy in the right place, or are the plugs connected one terminal out - it can happen, so the rough running is very far retarded, and as you advance, it gets more towards where it should be firing Between 3 and 5 degrees should normally be OK for a standard engine.

[bmcecosse]

Too far advanced - so something is wrong....... Very possibly the vacuum advance has failed - but could also be the mechanical advance in the dizzy. So - test the vacuum by sucking the pipe and watch to see if the dizzy base plate moves and retracts. Test the mechanical advance by twisting the rotor arm - does it spring back? And - no need for any silly additives ! Just run it on pump fuel - it will be fine. Just check and reset the valve gaps every 3000 miles.

[rustbucket]

possition of the rotor arm for no 1 cylinder at tdc is about half way between 3 & 4 oclock position as you look at the dizzy
i have not checked the mechanical advance will look at that tommorrow

[simmitc]

That is a good description of the position, but needs to reference the terminal on the side of the dizzy. Also, when the points open, is the rotor arm pointing to the lead that is going to the right cylinder?

[bmcecosse]

The 'position' doesn't matter a jot...... Depends entirely on where the drive shaft has been engaged with the camshaft.....

[rustbucket]

the drive shaft is offset so it only goes in one way i think. if its in the other way round the rotor arm will point in the other direction to number 4 cylinder. when the piston for number 1 cylinder is at tdc the rotor arm is in the afor mentioned position.
rotor arm to no 1 plug

[rustbucket]

scratch that. if it points 180deg the other way with it being offset the cam would have to be 180deg out. i think

[rustbucket]

so no 4 cylinder would become no1 cylinder for the firing order

[bmcecosse]

The drive shaft can be engaged with the camshaft gear in several different orientations - it matters not! And yes - the dizzy can only engage with the drive shaft in one orientation. The fact you need so much 'static' advance tells us there is a problem in the dizzy. Many have commented favourably on a NEW dizzy from simonbbc or accuspark which solves all these problems at a stroke !

[mike.perry]

set the crank pulley at 3deg moved dizzy till the bulb lights like the book says and it runs awful.
dosent pull and coughs and farts.
lost now.

Are you sure that you were turning the dizzy in the right direction so that the points were just opening when the bulb lit, or the wrong way so that the points were just closing when the bulb lit?

[katy]

got the engine back together

Are you SURE that the timing chain and gears are aligned properly?

[rustbucket]

thats a good one
when setting the timing chain as in the hand book the woodruff key has to be set at tdc
the timing marks for tdc are at the bottom (6 o'clock )
does the key go to 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock?
on the dizzy where would no1 ht lead be positioned
towards the bulk head or towards the radiator?
the rotor arm on my car is pointing towards the bulkhead for no 1 ht lead when no1 piston is on the firing stroke.
i think i may have the timing chain 180deg out.

[brucek]

This is what the timing chain and alignment should look like:[frame][/frame]

The important part is firstly ensuring that no 1 is at TDC and that the timing gears and chain are set up as in the diagram. If this is set up right, the crank sprocket and the cam sprocket need to match location dots when the chain and sprockets are fitted. As you can see the crank sprocket woodruff key is not at the top when the sprockets are in the right position so it may be that these are wrong on your car.

This thread also dealt with a case of this being set up wrongly. It might help

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... 5&start=15

Hope you get it fixed soon - good luck

[bmcecosse]

The engine runs - the timing cannot be 180 out....... There IS a problem with the dizzy.......

[mike.perry]

What about my suggestion??????/