no more MOT for pre 60 cars

[IaininTenbury]

..

The most dramatic one being a '58 convertible with a new mohair hood and leather interior where the oner complained that the doors didn't fit too well and could they be adjusted. Yes, you guessed, it was disaster of patches upon patches and plated over sills with little strength. How bad it would have been if they hadn't have spent a couple of hundred each year having it patched for the test, who knows. In an accident it would have just folded up....
In (thankful) contrast, my own '53 convertible was picked up on a very wobbly bottom trunnion that I hadn't noticed this year. The tester suggested a good greasing might take out someof the play, but I assured him it would be changed as soon as I drove very carefully back to work. The days of seeing Minors with a front wheel tucked up in the wing on a road junction may well return. There's plenty of owners who have no idea where the brake reservoir is, never mind how to use a grease gun, or even what a grease gun is....

As well as disapointing and badly thought out, I also ought to add, rather worrying. Wether the A30 v bus queue scenario ever happens, (I like the way it has to be an A30 on a Minor forum btw!), we now have a distinction between very old cars and the rest of the road traffic. How long before we can only go out on weekends to organised shows etc. There's similar legislation in other countries and this is a step in the direction towards this. Not wanting to sound panicky or be a doom mongerer, but its my livelyhood as well as a hobby thats being messed about with here...

I think the point about the '58 convertible is very valid, but also as an example of why no MOT might be a good thing. If it wasn't for the bare minimum of bodging each year it would probably be where it belongs - off the road.

Fair point, it would probably have fell in half long ago. Hopefully not when the owner was driving it though....

[IaininTenbury]

BTW it's also my livelihood and I think it's great for the business!

Looking at it on a more positive side, there could be more opportunity for specialists to offer vehicle inspections for potential buyers and maybe even as part of a regular service and safety check? See it as a business oportunity rather than a blow to the old car movement in general...

Hopefully there will still be the means of voluntary MOT tests, which if so I will certainly use for my cars and any restorations on customers cars.

[Sidney'61]

I do wish folk would stop bashing testers with duff info!

ALL doors on any car must be able to be OPENED from OUTSIDE when they are unlocked. As long as you can physically unlock them with or without central locking thats fine. The front drivers and FRONTpassengers door must be able to be opened from inside the car.
Nothing to do with central locking at all
look here: http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/d ... guides.htm

Im not bashing testers with duff info thankyou!! As you just stated the doors should open when UNLOCKED! If he'd bothered to attempt to unlock it in the normal fashion (pre-64 no keyhole) instead of just pulling on the outside handle of a locked passenger door all would have been fine! I never went back there again...

[Neil MG]

To be fair there are some valid comments and good points being raised. Personally I can only see the huge benefit to all the owners of pre '60 cars that are lovingly and professionally maintained. In the worst case there is no change as cars can always be tested outside the MOT system.

I can also understand the frustration from all the post '60 car owners who will miss out. Especially for carry over models like the Minor.

I genuinely believe that all sensible owners will benefit from the system without abusing it, and the not sensible ones, well an annual MOT is not enough for them anyway! Luckily they represent a very, very small minority. Working with classic cars on a daily basis I can also say that the risk of a safety failure on a pre '60 car without MOT is far, far less than the risk of such on a post '60 car with MOT. This is simply due to numbers and the extra maintenance necessary to run older cars.

Of course this is a Morris Minor forum and many people feel it's unfair as it splits owners, quite literally, down the middle (car ages not numbers). There seemed to be much more sympathy for pre-war cars being MOT exempt.

[jagnut66]

Madness that will eventually cost someone's life and lead to 'nanny state' restrictions on our cars.

[robberred1993]

Hope this doesn't push up the prices of pre 1960s vehicles, or lead to restrictions on their use.

Could push them down.....as I always use MOT as an indicator of Value.......I for sure will be getting mine "voluntarily" tested each year, to ensure peace of mind, and value of my car.

An Argument for the Peace of Mind thing being, I thought my car was going to fly through this week, It didn't. I hadn't noticed what the MOT test had found, I could fix my car and make it safe. With out this MoT test, I would have never known. I expect many people have the same theory.

[EwenCameron]

I have just collected my 1954 Splitscreen back today from its MOT. Cost me £55 but no advisories and happy that another person has given it a clean bill of health.

[EwenCameron]

Nothing required for the MOT just the standard cost of £55 charged for their time

[chrisd87]

But what is stopping the brakeless A30 running into the bus queue with an MOT? Driving with no brakes is illegal regardless of this new ruling.

100% agreed, however you're assuming that the general public/newspaper campaigns can get their heads around such inconvenient facts!

[dalgrae]

I seem to agree about the voluntary MOT providing the garage will carry it out , on my 1953 series 2 there was not much he could check , yes he did the door opening / closing , he struggled to get the adaptors to fit the ramp to check the front / rear suspension the lights only had to work , a brake check was carried out , but before all this he had to research online what he could check , as I use this garage for my soon to be exempt pair of classic bikes so he is resonably conversant with old vehicles , I wonder how many garages will not have the knowledge of what to check , I also presume that as no MOT certificate can be issued as it is not required to be all we will have to go on is the receipt . I wonder if the amount charged will be the same, as an MOT in Bristol can vary from £35 to £55

[faversham999]

will it be easier to sell number plates no on pre 1960 scrap cars

[Gareth]

I find the whole scenario thoroughly concerning; not because of the danger of unroadworthy wrecks charging along the High Street but for more sinister reasons. If there is an exemption for pre-1960 vehicles, what conditions will need to be met? Will there be a limit on the use of these vehicles? Is it possible that the Government will, in future legislation, curtail the use of our cars either by their own ends or by the restrictive terms and conditions that may be imposed by our Insurers.

Thankfully I have found a great backstreet garage near me, run by a guy who understands Minors and the A-series. I trust his judgement on the condition of my car and Phyllis enjoys visiting him each year.

Obviously my wallet would prefer she didn't need to spend a morning in his company but the £45 he charged me this year isn't going to break the bank.

This is worrying. What have the FBHVC to say on the matter?

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

I find the whole scenario thoroughly concerning; not because of the danger of unroadworthy wrecks charging along the High Street but for more sinister reasons. If there is an exemption for pre-1960 vehicles, what conditions will need to be met? Will there be a limit on the use of these vehicles? Is it possible that the Government will, in future legislation, curtail the use of our cars either by their own ends or by the restrictive terms and conditions that may be imposed by our Insurers.

If the govt think they're stopping me using my pre-1960 car as much as I like they can sod off. They're not telling me what I can and can't drive.

[Gareth]

Information from the Horses Mouth: Dft Press Release

Classic vehicles will be exempted from the MoT test, Roads Minister Mike Penning announced today.
Classic and historic vehicles are often very well maintained by their owners and have a much lower accident and MoT failure rate than newer vehicles.
The current requirement to undergo an MoT test goes over and above the obligations set out in European legislation. Following a public consultation which showed high levels of support for the proposals, vehicles manufactured before 1960 will be exempted from the MoT test from 18th November 2012 reducing costs for owners.
Owners of affected vehicles will still be able to take exempt vehicles for an MoT test on a voluntary basis.
Mike Penning said:
“We are committed to cutting out red tape which costs motorists money without providing significant overall benefits. Owners of classic cars and motorbikes tend to be enthusiasts who maintain their vehicles well – they don’t need to be told to look after them, they’re out there in all weathers checking the condition of the engine, tyres and bodywork.
“Owners of classic vehicles will still be legally required to ensure that they are safe and in a proper condition to be on the road but scrapping the MoT test for these vehicles will save motorists money.”

And more:
Mike Penning's Written Statement Note my emphasis in bold.

The Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning): Today I am announcing the Government’s plan to exempt all vehicles of historic interest (vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 1960) in Great Britain (GB) from statutory MOT test, as allowed under Article 4(2) of the EU Directive 2009/40/EC. I am also publishing the outcome of the consultation (with Government response) on our proposal to exempt historic vehicles from the MOT test which closed on 26 January 2012.

The EU Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council, Chapter II, Exceptions, Article 4 states: “Member States may, after consulting the Commission, exclude from the scope of this Directive, or subject to special provisions, certain vehicles operated or used in exceptional conditions and vehicles which are never, or hardly ever, used on public highways, including vehicles of historic interest which were manufactured before 1 January 1960 or which are temporarily withdrawn from circulation. Member States may, after consulting the Commission, set their own testing standards for vehicles considered to be of historic interest.”

Whilst the pre-1960 manufactured vehicles made up 0.6% of the 35.2m licensed vehicles in GB they were involved in just 0.03% of road casualties and accidents. Two-thirds of them are driven under 500 miles a year and their initial MOT test failure rate (10%) is only a third of that of post -1960 manufactured vehicles.

Following consultation, the Government has concluded that we should proceed with exempting all pre-1960 manufactured vehicles from the MOT test. The Government believes that the exemption will reduce regulatory burden on owners of historic vehicles, meet its Reducing Regulation agenda and the desire to remove unnecessary burdens. It will also bring the age of vehicles requiring the statutory MOT test in line with The Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988, which already exempts unladen pre-1960 manufactured Heavy Goods Vehicles from the roadworthiness test. Owners of pre-1960 manufactured vehicles will still retain the option to do voluntary MOT test on their vehicles.

The outcome of consultation with Government response can be found on the Department’s website.

An amendment will be made to regulation 6 of The Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981 to enable the MOT exemption. It is my intention that the changes come into force by 18 November 2012.

Hmm... I suppose it comes down to how much you trust the present Government... I suppose that if your car has a current MoT certificate (which does not prove its roadworthiness outside of the time of testing) there is no legal reason for them to limit the use. If, however, there is no MoT then it is not inconceivable that the use of that vehicle might be curtailed.

I wonder if the DfT and the DVLA will put their heads together and link the MoT exemption with the Road Tax exemption thus making all vehicles pre-1960 as Historic. Anything 1960-onwards could well revert to a standard schedule of charges.

Mais c'est une tout autre affaire.

[Gareth]

Okay, last one, then I'll leave you all in peace again.

From the Federation of British Historical Vehicle Clubs:

Mike Penning, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, has announced the results of the Historic Vehicles MoT Exemption Review. The DfT is in favour of exemption for pre-1960 vehicles and it is proposed this will take effect from 18 November 2012. Owners of exempted vehicles will be able to take them for a voluntary test under the new regulations.

The FBHVC’s initial response is a guarded welcome to a result that matches the wishes of the majority of respondents to the Federation’s MoT survey. We hope to get more information about the detail of the proposals from the DfT in due course, in order to make a proper assessment – particularly about passenger carrying vehicles in commercial use which we were surprised to note are also to be exempt from MoT testing.

In general historic vehicle owners are law abiding and safety conscious and are aware that they have a duty to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy condition and accept the exemption from MoT testing is not an excuse for poor maintenance.

[drivewasher]

Well here's a laugh at least
http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/05/22/govtnewinitiative/

[IaininTenbury]

Brilliant. Says it all really

Oh and thanks to Gareth for posting all the proper info.

[Alex'n'Ane]

I'd be all for the government being sensible and limiting the use of pre 60's cars without an mot! This would imho serve the purpose they are intending, eg people with purely show cars can still happily drive their a1 condition cars to and from shows, but thats all. Whilst the rest of the people, who want to drive the car on a more regular basis, would still have to pass an mot.
Insurers could relatively easily do this themselves if they only allowed limited milage (say upto 500 or 1000miles) cars to be insured without requiring an 'optional' mot, but insisted on one for cars insured on an over 1000 miles policy..

[kennatt]

then there will be many cars running without speedos connected using sat nav to stick to speed limits,like I'm sure many do now to stay within insurance milage restriction, not that us moggie owners would every do that or am I being cynical ,I think not:o

[chickenjohn]

I can understand no MOT for pre-war cars, i.e. pre great war, London to Brighton cars etc. I heard a story from a restorer that drove a 1901 car that he had made new wings for to an MOT test. The tester just looked at him and the car and said, "well you got here, here is your ticket" there is so little to test on the really old cars that the MOT test is meaningless.

But 50's and later cars can and often are used as everyday vehicles, (I use mine!) so should be subject to an MOT test. And why the 1960 arbitrary date?? why not 1970 or 1972???

What they should have brought out is a simpler, cheaper MOT for pre 1980 cars. It is since about 1980 that the modern standardised car came about with engine management, fuel injection, Mac Pherson strut and disc brakes etc...

i.e an MOT that only takes 20 mins and costs only £20 as that is all a post war classic needs.