Gearbox overhaul

[biomed32uk]

As part of me rebuilding the engine over the winter I also want to do the gerbox bearings, actually took the car out of gear today, not much point in leaving it like that with no engine in, the input bearing is very rough, so it wont be money wasted.

Has anyone used this guy on ebay, lots of good feedback and the prices compare with Moss.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-Minor- ... 1879&rt=nc

Nice to have it all in a kit, the haynes manual seems to make quite a good job of describing stripping the box, are there any better resources out there for the job, looks straight forward enough.

[bmcecosse]

Inspect the condition of the 1st gear teeth on the laygear - and on the gear itself, and the 2nd gear dog teeth (compare them with the dog teeth on 4th gear) - before deciding to rebuild the box. Assuming they are serviceable - you should also fit a new syncro ring to 2nd and probably also 3rd gear. 4th gear syncro 'never' wears...

[biomed32uk]

Yes, I intend to give it all a good look at, it's working perfectly, no gear noises, jumping out of gear and all the synchros are working, but while its apart it will all be done if required. It is noisey when ticking over, my drive is narrow between a wall and fence, can certainly hear the input bearing whirring then with the window down and the noise coming back at you.

I have Weeley transmissions up the road from me, they advertise in the magazines and he did my Marina box for me years ago, so if need other parts he will probably be the man, and very likely have stuff knocking around.

Just planning ahead at the moment, I don't want gearboxes in pieces while I have the engine on the go, just waiting for some parts and that will be sorted out.

[lockupchap]

Keep us informed with your progress - I'll follow it due to preparing to rebuild a box, something I haven't done before.

My Traveller's box groans and whines more than any passenger could and jumps out of second, so I bought a used box of unknown condition followed by an overhaul kit from 'Eafrow Transmissions. It contains all the parts shown in the ad you posted, plus baulk rings. I know 'Eafrow were recently savaged on this Forum by a member who appointed them to rebuild his diff, but the complaint seemed to be about their own workmanship rather than the parts they supplied.

A newbie question: are synchro rings and baulk rings different names for the same thing, or not?

[bmcecosse]

Same thing.

[biomed32uk]

Well it will be coming out early in the new year, got the bottom end of my engine sorted now, I have kicked Minispares up the rear as I am waiting for some grooved valve guides.

Dropped the prop off yesterday, that also needs attention as the front UJ is graunchy, that was fun to get apart, someone had been in there, walloped a new bearing in and picked up the housing a bit, making it very tight to get out, and then to make life really interesting the lugs broke off one of the circlips. Took me near on two hours to get it apart.

I too have never stripped a car box to that level, used to do machine tool ones and they can be very complex. By all looks of it the Minor box is pretty simple. I will probably get their kit with the baulk rings in as well, I am hoping thats all I need, the box is fine, or at least its working fine with no issues, just the bearings complaining. Hoping that none of the gears are mashed.

When the box is out of the way the clutch / brake pedal is on the way out for a looking at, as that feels tired as well, the clutch operating components have had it with the exception of the link plates and pins, changed them in the summer.

Think this winters turning into a full drivetrain resto .

[ianmack]

I rebuilt my gearbox a couple of years ago, replacing reverse gear which had broken, plus bearings and seals. I used the Haynes manual and I don't recall any special tools being needed. The only problem was a sprung detent ball which disappeared over my shoulder, never to be seen again. To avoid this the gear cluster should be dismantled inside a clear plastic bag. That way you can see what you are doing and any flying parts will be contained.

I didn't buy a kit, just individual parts from Bull Motif.

[les]

As above, use a manual, as it gives all the clearances for shims etc. Especially if you strip the gearbox right out, which of course is nice, because you can clean everything up and assemble as new. Make sure you check out the lay shaft and its needle bearings. You'll be a lucky guy if the shaft has not 'picked up'

[biomed32uk]

Yes, I intend to fit a new layshaft and bearings, that's part of the kit, can get one with a baulk rings as well.

I have read about the detent balls from the first gear hub going flying !, and being tricky to refit, a ty rap is apparent good here when fitting the outer ring.

I am hoping to get away with gears, fingers crossed.

Are the parts from BM of good quality for the box ?.

[bmcecosse]

There's no need to release the balls/springs from the 1st/2nd hub - unless you desperately want to renew them....

[biomed32uk]

No if it can stay there then it will be if the gear is OK, no need to temp the fate of the balls flying round the workshop.

Box is ready to go now, unscrewed the floor today, inside of the chasssis rails are perfect so thats good news.

Brake pedal is flopping around like a goodun on the shaft, thats always felt loose from when I test drove it, so the pedals are coming out to see what's what when I get the box out. Some worn bushes I think and possibly a worn spindle which I presume is a new clutch pedal.

[bmcecosse]

Or weld it up and machine it......

[ianmack]

I found the parts from BM to be of good quality. Dismantling first gear isn't essential if you are just replacing bearings but if you've gone that far I would prefer to inspect all the internal parts.

[biomed32uk]

Good to hear as they seem to work out cheaper the the kit of parts, was just wondering of the quality but seems you have answered that.

I have a friend popping round Sunday morning to help me out with the box, there's no engine in the car so it's a simple removal. Bar the rear mounts all ready to go, floor cover loose etc etc so all being well in 15 mins we'll be having a celebratory cuppa

I know that its engibe oil to refil it and not hypoid oil, whats best though of the engine oils to use?, decent 20/50 as per engine, I use silkolene classic 20/50

[bmcecosse]

The original spec is just SAE 30 engine oil. It doesn't need anything fancy.

[biomed32uk]

Thats good, I have Morris Goldenfilm straight 30 that I use for my Lister D type engine.

Gearbox removed and stripped, all looks OK with the main problems being the input and output bearings, the layshaft is actually OK but will get changed while its apart. First gear is not brilliant, most wear is evident on the actual gear itself. Have to see what I can source, I have to be sensible here as its a 1000 mile a year Sunday car.

The sorry story is the clutch and brake pedal, theres some wear evident on the shaft I think....[frame][/frame]

Think that may warrant replacement, sure I read on here of a mod to put a grease nipple on the brake pedal which seems a good idea. I think the bushes in the chassis somehow seem OK, which is surprising considering the surface at the end resembles a file, they look awkward to get out as well.

[philthehill]

Strange as it may seem - in my experience no matter how bad the shaft is the bush seldom has wear.
Fitting a grease nipple to the brake pedal is a very good idea. I fitted one to my brake pedal many years ago and here are some photos of the nipple fitted. The angled nipple allows the nipple to clear the floor plate.
Just make a small hole (but just large enough to fit the grease gun nozzle through) in the floor plate aligned with the nipple so that all you have to do is lift the carpet and attach the grease gun, a couple of squeezes, refit carpet and the jobs done.
Some people do centre drill in from the clutch pedal end of the shaft and then cross drill to let the grease out. The old bushes in the chassis are a bit difficult to remove (easier to fit though) and will need to be reamed after fitting.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[biomed32uk]

It was you, thought it was. Thats a job that will be happening then, I hope to get the bushes out of the brake pedal and refurn that, if indeed they are worn. There didnt feel that much slop in the clutch pedal, not much movement which is backed by the smaller amount of wear on the spindle that end in comparision to where the brake pedal runs.

Now the box is out I will mod those bolts you suggested back in the summer where the steady wire bracket goes, easy to do now.

The yoke on the brake pedal is also bent, or at least the threaded rod is, quite how thats happened not sure. Not happy to bend it back in case its weakened it, dont fancy that breaking.

I could grind the old spindle out, turn a new one up and re weld it in, but for £20 for the clutch pedal assy it hardly seems worth it.

My little winter engine is turning into a mini front end drive line restoration, pleasure to do though and its getting the car back to spot on.

[biomed32uk]

Extracted the remains of the bushes from the pedal tonight, and cleaned it up. There is already a hole in the very top of the pedal when it is in the fitted postion, going into the middle between the bushes. Have to dob some weld in there otherwise the grease will just come out of that, looks like an attempt at an oil hole possibly.

Ordered all the stuff to sort the clutch and brake pedals out, other than the brake pedal itself the rest of it is well past its best.

Does the 3rd / 4th gear hub have a preferred way round, it fell out into the casing as I removed the shaft, I am pretty certain it was fitted with three small holes showing the bottom of the springs facing towards third gear, and the baulk rings would confirm that, small wear on 3rd and none on 4th.

[biomed32uk]

Questions questions......

The front cover on the gearbox has a crack in it, running from the input shaft hole, does anyone know of a source or is it buy one of the ones with the lip seal mod done.