Electronic ignition question.

[67-2door]

Hi.
My Minor is fitted with an ETi200 electronic ignition system. I know nothing about them as I'd never heard of them until I bought the car. It seems to work fine, and looking in the distributor the points, condenser etc are all still in place.
The thing that worries me a little is if the unit fails it could leave me stranded.
I'd value opinions on whether to:
A. Remove the unit return wiring to standard & run normal points ignition so at least it's (hopefully) fixable by the roadside if it goes wrong, or
B. Leave it alone & if it does go wrong try to get it running on the standard points system at the roadside (surely the wiring cant be very different to standard.
Thanks.
Neil.

[alexmcguffie]

From what I can tell, the type you have should have a 3 way switch (electronic / off / standard ignition). These were quite good in their day and similar to equivalent Sparkrite systems. I'd leave it on for now and prove the switch works. Given that it has an 'off' position, it gives you another security feature.

If the electronic side of the system ever fails then you should be able to switch it to 'standard' and keep going. As you still have a set of points fitted then it shouldn't take long to put the wiring back to standard either. If its been done well then it should be a case of moving a few connectors around with no tools being needed. You may need to close the spark plug gaps back to 25 thou as they should be at 40 thou for a proper electronic system like you have fitted.

[67-2door]

Thankyou for your reply.
It does have a switch, I think it says electronic/timing/standard. I'll try the different positions on the switch to make sure they work but then as you say I might as well leave it in place while it's working ok.
Thanks.
Neil.

[john kay]

Hello all Moggy lovers.

I am about to fit one of these to my 1967 4 door, I bought it some 20 years back intending to fit it to what ever I was driving at the time and never got round to it. And could not fit it to the Morris until now because the item and it's paper work got separated in the piles (you know what I means by piles yes.) Well I have both paper and object in the same pile at last, so it will happen soon. So I thought I'd share the knowledge with you all, you lovely Moggy lovers.

The basic info...[frame][/frame]

And then the full monty, 1,[frame][/frame]

and 2[frame][/frame]

and 3[frame][/frame]

There is not much info about this object online at all, and I take that to be a good sign, people tended not to rave about something unless it didn't work.

My first car back in 1975 was a Green Morris Traveller LBV 303G and as a young electronics engineer at the time, I built my own using the original ETI (Electronics Today International) electronic ignition designed by the Australian team, and supplied as a kit by Maplin Electronics Ltd (Doug Simmons had old age pensioners packing the kits in a garage, that's how to become a millionaire kids) I still have mine in the cellar, I built it in to a proper die-cast box mind, not the flimsy bit of bent Ally that he supplied.

Well it worked a treat back then, I used it for over 12 years, a single flick of the crank handle always did the job.

I will report on the success of this unit as and when it gets fitted.

Happy trails all.
john kay

[bmcecosse]

I suggest carrying a complete 'known good' points dizzy in the car in case of trouble, will be a good idea. Any claims for better mpg/better performance etc will only be true if there is something wrong with the old points system - but 'easier starting' is probably a fair claim if the system can supply full volts to the coil when cranking.

[john kay]

You got it in one.

[john kay]

The other advantage of course, is not having to replace or reset the points gap every so often, the current the points have to switch with the electronics in place is a fraction of the Amps that are required without, so wear on the points is reduced to next to nought. And as you say with the inverter in these things suppling up to 400 volts on to a small HV capacitor in the unit, that then gets switched by a thyristor very quickly (big plus that, the dv/dt) on to the coil, you get a big fat spark even when cold and under load i.e. when cranking. The other systems that switched a resistor out of circuit when starting attest to the problems that this bit of 18th century technology was prone too. Have we all not been there? cold flat battery and no spark.

[MarkyB]

I would have reservations about fitting a 20 year old electronic ignition box as these were the ones that tended to break down.
These systems have come a long way in that time in term of reliability which is why people are fitting them again.

[bmcecosse]

The wear on points is mostly on the 'heel' that rubs against the rotating cam shaft - and that will still occur.

[john kay]

So how often would you recommend they be replaced or is it just a timing adjustment required?

[john kay]

did you like the chuff chuffs by the way?

[dalebrignall]

once its set with electronoc thats it , just keep an eye on the rotor arm and dizzy cap .

[bmcecosse]

Where points are retained - the gap will need checking/resetting from time to time. The modern electronic units don't use points .

[MrIan]

So modern electronic ignition is both a benefit and also pointless !!

[SteveClem]

Sounds like a good idea for a tv quiz show....

[john kay]

Well It's fitted and working nicely, My local Morris Minor specialists (Martin and Paul) did me a full service, new plugs and reset the points last fortnight and at the moment, all I can say is that starting is excellent, but then I've a new battery and the car is garaged, so only to be expected. I'll keep reporting back when I have more data.

My specialist Paul recommends one of the Hall effect point units fitted to a new distributer as available on Ebay for around £60 - £70. I'm going to pick one up when I get round to it, and keep the existing unit as a fail-safe.

Below are three pictures of the thing fitted and 5 pages from a copy of Practical Electronics circa 1966 which details a positive earth version of a capacitor discharge ignition system, [ Using germanium transistors ] for reference purposes only. It gives a fairly detailed explanation of the whole process. When I find the more modern version using silicon transistors I'll post that too.

[frame][/frame]
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https://archive.org/details/PracticalEl ... 6September

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Oh and In the article when they talk about C4 they really mean C5 and then.... there is more to the actual discharge in to the coil through C4 then I want to go into just now.

I realise that all this may be "TOO much information" but hey it's free, and as we know today information wants to be free.

Or as the late Douglas Adams used to say, "Share and Enjoy"

[john kay]

Oh And this picture of my first Morris traveller LBV303G outside a well known Manchester drinking house which sadly is no more, only came to light last year. I had no idea that my old car had become immortalised outside the public house with the knickers on the ceiling, and the slogan "fly united"

https://www.flickr.com/photos/goremirebob/8535219590/

[frame][/frame]

Circa 1975

[bmcecosse]

Bad idea having the coil on the alternator - better to keep it away from the AC currents/heat/vibration. Mount it on the inner wing!

[john kay]

Interesting, I hear what your saying, about vibration and all, don't want things vibrating loose, however my feeling would be that as the plugs and distributer are on the engine and moving, it would seem sensible to have the coil moving with them rather then not moving with them on the inner wing.

Is there a consensus on this?

I've not that great an exposure to engine compartments, cpu's are more my area.

[john kay]

The other thing that occurs to me, is that the spark current return is the engine block and thus to the coil body and is that not common with the negative terminal. Not something I've thought too deeply about before.

Most transformers have four wires but having the earths as common is not unreasonable.

Oh and then before I started all this, I should have remembered .....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.