Engine Problems

Discuss mechanical problems here.

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MacQuigley
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Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Wed May 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Need some help with this one.

A few weeks back I took the Morris out for its first run this year. Id checked her over before hand and all was well, all fluids present and correct. Cutting a long story short somewhere between Hamilton and Uddingston she blow a core plug and all coolant was lost. I managed to nurse he to my dads, which is where I discovered what had happened.

I fit a new core plug the following weekend but she wouldnt start. Decided to pull th ehead and thats when I found water in the cylinders. Fitt a new head gasket and tryed again, still nothing. Pulled head again and foun dwater in only No 1 cylinder. Checked for cracks in the block but couldnt find any. Turned engine over with the head off and no water appeared. But head back on and same again no start, pulled head, water in No1 cylinder.

Obviously I suspect the head bit again I cant see any signs of any damage. The engine did serously over heat so i guess the head could be warped.

Before I think about getting it skimmed has anyone any suggestions? Also, will a head from a later 1098 fit a 948?

simmitc
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby simmitc » Wed May 30, 2018 9:59 pm

You can check the head with a "straight edge" or a small sheet of glass; but with a bad overheat then it is likely to be warped. You can order exchange reconditioned heads from some of the Minor parts suppliers.

philthehill
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby philthehill » Wed May 30, 2018 10:55 pm

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. :(
If you ran the engine after loosing a core plug the engine will have been well and truly cooked.
Check the top of the block as well as the head for trueness.
Use a rigid straight edge as a flexible straight edge can accentuate or decrease the amount of distortion measured.
Any more than 0.003" distortion to the top of the block and/or the head will require skimming to bring back to true but other damage say to the rings may have occurred.
The 1098cc cylinder head Pt No 12G202 will fit the 948cc engine without problem though the 1098cc cylinder head has a combustion chamber volume of 26.1cc against the 24.5cc of the 948cc cylinder head Pt No: 2A628.
You may find a small loss of power but the 1098cc cylinder head will get you going again if the top of the block is true.
If one core plug has failed I would replace all of the core plugs including the one in the rear of the block to be on the safe side.
Phil


MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:13 am

Thanks guy's,

I really only want to get it running again so I can get it back from my dad's. If I can get it home I can pull the engine if necessaey strip it and get the block and head skimmed.

philthehill
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby philthehill » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:32 am

Are you not able to get the car recovered back to your home?
If you cannot get it recovered is it possible that you could tow the car home using a solid tow bar?
To be honest recovery would be the easiest and safest way to get the car back.
You could spend all that effort fitting the 1098cc head only for it to go again 100 yards down the road and then you are back to square one.
Phil


MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:10 am

That is a valid point Phil especially as one of the other core plugs does look a little suspect!

I may be able to get a trailer for a day and put it on that. I should have just recovered it when it broke down initially instead of nursing it to my dads, but of course at that point I didn't know what had happened.

philthehill
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby philthehill » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:38 am

You can always be wise after the event. You just have to do what you think is best at the time.
Do you belong to the likes of the AA or RAC? You may be able to get it recovered for free if covered by yours or your dad's membership.
I managed to get my stepsons car recovered on my membership.
Phil


myoldjalopy
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby myoldjalopy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:10 pm

For future reference - anybody - I blew a core plug once and when the RAC man came, he sealed the hole with some kind of quick setting goo by spiraling it from the radius of the hole in to the centre (I don't unfortunately know what it was, but others here may have an idea). I was then able to drive home (keeping the heater on to make sure I could detect any failure of his repair - which would have been shown by the hot heater air going cold). Once I got a new core plug (and a couple of spares in case another one blew) I was able to remove the temorary fix by drilling a hole in it and levering it out.

morris van
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby morris van » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:51 pm

Has your insurance got breakdown recovery you could get them to recover your car home. My van blew its head gasket 50yds from home and the breakdown recovery on my insurance was kind enough to get it to the garage that does repairs on classic cars. I would have done the job myself but at the time did not have the time.


MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:48 am

Sorry its taken so long to update this post but time hasn't been on my side the last few months.

I was eventually able to recover the Moggie from my dads last week. The night I got it back I had a quick look at the engine just to see if Id missed any cracks etc. Didn't find any cracks but I did, purely by chance, find 2 head studs that were lose and backed out ever so slightly (in fact all 4 of the longer studs turned out to be loose). Anyway I couldn't do anything right away as I needed a new head gasket, so got on the old interweb and duely ordered one (well 2, just in case) from Bull Motif.

With 2 new head gaskets in hand I got the head back on Friday night and reassembled everything else and torques the head down on Saturday morning. Got in the car, pulled the starter knob and nothing! At least I could see there was no bubbling from the radiator. Then I remembered - its been a few months remember - you still need to put the ignition key in and turn it on even though its a pull starter, Doh!

Key in and turned, choke out, pulled the starter and guess what, she fired up right away. Let her run for a bit, checking everything out and other than a slight water leak coming from one water heater hose everything seems just fine.

I can only think that when the core plug popped and the engine overheated the head studs came loose. I was able to restart it initially because it was hot and everything tight but when I replaced the core plug a week later everything had cooled down, contracted and the loose studs allowed water to pass the gasket. Somehow - and I am clutching at straws here I guess - when I replaced the head gasket initially somehow I torqued onto the head rather than torqueing the head to the block and that slight gap remained. Tenuous I know but I cant explain it any other way.

So she is up and running again. Now all I need to do is figure out how to adjust the carb correctly so the engine doesn't cut out every time I come to a stop and all will be well with the world.

Again, guy's, thanks for the advice.

MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:48 am

Sorry its taken so long to update this post but time hasn't been on my side the last few months.

I was eventually able to recover the Moggie from my dads last week. The night I got it back I had a quick look at the engine just to see if Id missed any cracks etc. Didn't find any cracks but I did, purely by chance, find 2 head studs that were lose and backed out ever so slightly (in fact all 4 of the longer studs turned out to be loose). Anyway I couldn't do anything right away as I needed a new head gasket, so got on the old interweb and duely ordered one (well 2, just in case) from Bull Motif.

With 2 new head gaskets in hand I got the head back on Friday night and reassembled everything else and torques the head down on Saturday morning. Got in the car, pulled the starter knob and nothing! At least I could see there was no bubbling from the radiator. Then I remembered - its been a few months remember - you still need to put the ignition key in and turn it on even though its a pull starter, Doh!

Key in and turned, choke out, pulled the starter and guess what, she fired up right away. Let her run for a bit, checking everything out and other than a slight water leak coming from one water heater hose everything seems just fine.

I can only think that when the core plug popped and the engine overheated the head studs came loose. I was able to restart it initially because it was hot and everything tight but when I replaced the core plug a week later everything had cooled down, contracted and the loose studs allowed water to pass the gasket. Somehow - and I am clutching at straws here I guess - when I replaced the head gasket initially somehow I torqued onto the head rather than torqueing the head to the block and that slight gap remained. Tenuous I know but I cant explain it any other way.

So she is up and running again. Now all I need to do is figure out how to adjust the carb correctly so the engine doesn't cut out every time I come to a stop and all will be well with the world.

Again, guy's, thanks for the advice.

MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:48 am

Sorry its taken so long to update this post but time hasn't been on my side the last few months.

I was eventually able to recover the Moggie from my dads last week. The night I got it back I had a quick look at the engine just to see if Id missed any cracks etc. Didn't find any cracks but I did, purely by chance, find 2 head studs that were lose and backed out ever so slightly (in fact all 4 of the longer studs turned out to be loose). Anyway I couldn't do anything right away as I needed a new head gasket, so got on the old interweb and duely ordered one (well 2, just in case) from Bull Motif.

With 2 new head gaskets in hand I got the head back on Friday night and reassembled everything else and torques the head down on Saturday morning. Got in the car, pulled the starter knob and nothing! At least I could see there was no bubbling from the radiator. Then I remembered - its been a few months remember - you still need to put the ignition key in and turn it on even though its a pull starter, Doh!

Key in and turned, choke out, pulled the starter and guess what, she fired up right away. Let her run for a bit, checking everything out and other than a slight water leak coming from one water heater hose everything seems just fine.

I can only think that when the core plug popped and the engine overheated the head studs came loose. I was able to restart it initially because it was hot and everything tight but when I replaced the core plug a week later everything had cooled down, contracted and the loose studs allowed water to pass the gasket. Somehow - and I am clutching at straws here I guess - when I replaced the head gasket initially somehow I torqued onto the head rather than torqueing the head to the block and that slight gap remained. Tenuous I know but I cant explain it any other way.

So she is up and running again. Now all I need to do is figure out how to adjust the carb correctly so the engine doesn't cut out every time I come to a stop and all will be well with the world.

Again, guy's, thanks for the advice.

MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:50 am

Sorry for the 3 copies. Not sure how I managed that!

philthehill
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby philthehill » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:41 am

Did you re-torque the head after the first heat cycle?
It is important that you do so.


MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:03 am

If you mean after I replaced the head gasket for the first time yes, but if you mean directly after I replaced the core plug no never considered that but now you mention it it makes perfect sense.

j.davis200
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby j.davis200 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:31 am

If the timing and mixture are OK, but the engine's stalling as it drops back to idle, it could be the float chamber level is too low. Bend the needle valve operating arm to make it push up at a higher level.

j.davis200
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby j.davis200 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:44 am

And another thought - one of the great things about the wonderful A series engine is it's resistance to overheating - unlike modern aluminium heads and blocks, that are so thin and weak that they are scrap after a light toasting, I have seen those solid iron heads and blocks still fine after long periods running without water - normally the only reason to skim them is baked on gasket goo - no need for gasket cements at all if the surfaces are clean and flat.

geoberni
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby geoberni » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:52 am

MacQuigley wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:50 am
Sorry for the 3 copies. Not sure how I managed that!
If you use the buttons in the top right of an individual post (when it's your own), you can delete it....
Delete.JPG
Delete.JPG (9.89 KiB) Viewed 993 times
Basil the 1955 series II

Image

philthehill
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby philthehill » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:22 pm

For the removal of baked on gasket goo use a flat ended scraper or make your own from a old file making sure that the file teeth are removed so as not to mark the head or block faces.
A spray with Loctite gasket remover also helps but is not always necessary.
The 'A' Series heads do warp and any warping found to be over 0.003" requires the head needs to be skimmed.
I agree - there is absolutely no need to use gasket goo on the 'A' Series head, block and gasket faces.
If you want to put anything on the head gasket then a thin smear of general purpose grease is most suitable.
Copper faced gaskets are best.


MacQuigley
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Re: Engine Problems

Postby MacQuigley » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:48 pm

j.davis200 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:31 am
If the timing and mixture are OK, but the engine's stalling as it drops back to idle, it could be the float chamber level is too low. Bend the needle valve operating arm to make it push up at a higher level.
Timing and mixture are OK, I believe, but its definately stalling as it drops to idle. I will give that a go and see what happend.


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