oil Intercooler

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philthehill
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oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:56 pm

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53165#p642432

Further to above:-
MG Metro oil filter 2..jpg
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The MG Metro oil intercooler that fits between the filter head and spin on oil filter is becoming rare even S/H and if you want to fit one to a performance 'A' Series you would be hard pushed to find one in good and serviceable condition. Also the seal located between intercooler and filter head is very nearly unobtainable. It took me a long time of searching to get a NOS item.
I have been looking at alternatives to the MG Metro intercooler and the Renault Gran Scenic 2, Megan 2 intercoolers appears to fit the bill.
I ordered a used Renault intercooler off 'e' bay which arrived today and is near identical to the MG Metro intercooler. Slightly shallower at 47.5mm against the 55.5mm of the Metro and has a narrower oil seal but in all other aspects is identical and made by Modine same as the MG Metro intercooler.
Because the Renault intercooler is from a much newer vehicle even S/H units have very little if any corrosion. New Renault units can be obtained at a reasonable price.

I will obtain a new Renault seal and in due course fit to a MG Metro oil filter head and see if it all goes together without any problems and report back on here.


RobThomas
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby RobThomas » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:53 pm

It would be nice to find a source or manufacturer for the through-bolt thingy, too.

I've a feeling that Scenic engine is used by Dacia. Do you happen to know if the through-bolt is the same thread as the Midget/Morris, Phil? Would be nice to make a device to heat drinking water via the oil heat exchanger to heat up a cuppa. :D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Oil-Cool ... SwFqNZShB4
Cardiff, UK

philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:59 pm

Rob

The Renault oil intercooler looks exactly the same as the MG Metro item except for the differences stated above. The inlet/outlet pipes are orientated the same.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Cooler-R ... 2749.l2649

The centre bolt can be made up from two Mocol adapters joined together with the centre hex ground or machined off and which have the same thread as the Midget/Metro filter head

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-OIL-COOL ... 2749.l2649

The overall length may have to be adjusted to take into consideration the reduced thickness of the Renault oil intercooler.

You would be hard pushed in getting the water hot enough to make a decent cup of tea..:D

Phil


philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:53 pm

I have now machined the two Mocol adapter bolts and it all fits together on the MG Metro/MG Midget oil filter head..

The two adapters bolts had to be reduced in outside diameter to fit through the centre hole of the oil intercooler. The adapter bolt(s) are now the same O.D. as the MG Metro adapter bolt @ 22.4mm.

The two adapter bolts also had to be shortened to give the same length of protrusion through the centre of the Renault oil intercooler as the MG oil intercooler @ 3mm.

Of course it would have been much easier to have shortened the original MG Metro adapter bolt but as they are hard to come by I will keep that adapter bolt as standard. It may well be required if a new or very good S/H MG Metro oil intercooler comes my way.

To sum up if you want to fit a oil intercooler the Renault item is available new and S/H and reasonably priced for both new and S/H items.

The Part Number of the Renault oil intercooler is:- 77 00 114 040.
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MikeNash
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby MikeNash » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:38 am

Thanks for that Phil; I think these devices are unvalued and rather missed understood.
They're called "oil intercoolers" but I believe they function is much more as oil heaters. The oil in our A series engines is in my opinion far too cool for most of our running time. For example, in the recent warm spell with an air temperature of 25/26C my 1098cc Traveller and I did a typical shopping round trip of 22 miles with some 5 stops followed with a final 10 mile at a 50 mph canter along the A343 up into the NE Hants hills. All we achieved was a final maximum oil temperature of only 65C - and I believe a good running minimum should about 80C. (The oil was on it's "MAX" level.) To achieve this figure, I need a good uninterrupted run of some 25 miles at about 50-55 mph on an A road on a warm day. To get higher, to say over 90C, I need a steady uninterrupted 60-65 mph (a true GPS figure) for some 40 miles; I've never got over 100C even after a couple of hours on the M1 at 65-70mph - and the oil at that time was nearly at the "MIN" level.
I can see the "oil intercooler's" value for cooling the oil if you're using a 1275 engine in a high spirited manner but I believe that their real value is combatting the damage that the condensation in the oil is causing in more ordinary driving.
Regards from MikeN.
Morris Minor, the car of the future. One day they will all look like this!

panky
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby panky » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:45 am

I think they were fitted to the Metro Turbos to heat the oil feed to the turbo
Image

philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:29 pm

Mike
You are correct in your description above in that the oil intercooler has two purposes:-

1. To warm up the oil quicker
&
2. To cool the oil when it gets too hot.

Further to my posts above:

Whilst the seal of the Renault inter-cooler is useable I am finding difficulty in obtaining a NOS item. I have just come back from the local Renault garage where they said the original seal is obsolete (same situation as the MG Metro seal) but they have used a fuel filter seal to get over the problem. Unfortunately they could not give me any more information though they did a quick search of their fuel filter stock - I will post any information on here as regards the seal as and when I have further information.

As weight is a most important consideration and finding the Renault inter-cooler very heavy I have looked around and found that Citroen fitted a very light aluminium oil inter-cooler of which I have now obtained a good S/H unit.

As received and before a good clean up:-
Oil intercooler.jpg
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The part number of the Citroen item and made by Valeo is HA 1182 876864X...………………. 9650863380.

The seal fitted to the Citroen intercooler and which is located between intercooler and filter head is the same as the actual filter seal. I have several NOS items of the correct seal so no difficulty as regards seals.

I will have to machine the MG metro adapter bolt to suit the Citroen intercooler - now finding that I have two MG Metro adapter bolts I am happy to use one for the fitment of the Citroen item.

I will post photos of the complete intercooler mounted on the filter head with filter attached in due course.

Phil


philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:45 pm

Update.
Machined the MG Metro adapter bolts so to be able to add an extension to the bolt.
Decided in the light of poor availability of the Renault inter-cooler seal and the lightness of the alloy Citroen inter-cooler to fit the Citroen item.
Fits nicely onto the remote filter head and will be easy to plumb in - one pipe to the back of the head and the other to the 'T' junction on the bottom hose - just awaiting some 5/8"/14mm heater hose.
intercooler 28.JPG
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RobThomas
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby RobThomas » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:23 pm

Do you maybe have a collection of photos of your car, Phil? Always looks interesting whenever you show a pic of what you've done.

Curious about the Rose jointed rod near the cooler. Bracing??
Cardiff, UK

philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm

Rob
I do have a collection of photos of my Minor going back to about 1970 or possibly slightly before but they are scattered in various files all over the place. I have been getting them together slowly.

As a taster - Here am I just returned from Prescott speed hill climb if I remember correctly and a very youthful me at about 20 years of age and so that places the photo about 50 years ago - happy days. :D
img111.jpg
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Everyone had home made trailers in those days.

The 7J Revolution wheels were the first off the production line.
The engine was a 998cc tuned unit using quite a few Cooper engine parts.
The competition class back then was up to a 1000cc rear wheel drive and the car was competitive. Then the 1275cc Minis came on the scene and my Minor became relegated to the back markers but it has always drawn more attention than the large engine Mini's and super fast Caterham's.

The rose jointed bars are to keep the front firm. With only a fiberglass front the chassis legs were deforming at the bulkhead i.e. bending upwards under heavy braking. Fitting the two bars - one either side and bolted to the bulk head using the spare damper holes keeps the chassis legs in their place and makes the car handle so much better.

Phil


philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:04 pm

Update:-
I have revised the plumbing serving the oil intercooler.

One hose goes from the heater outlet at the rear of the head to the intercooler and the other goes from the intercooler to the top hose, or should I say it goes into the hose that takes coolant from the head to the radiator. The radiator is mounted below the boot floor if there was a boot floor.

Plumbing the coolant hose from the intercooler into the top hose sic. eliminates re-circulating hot coolant straight back to the block. It has to go to the radiator first for cooling before returning to the block/head.

I have disconnected the Davis Craig electric water pump which is located in the boot as I believe there was not enough circulation to the rear of the head with the pump mounted in that location. Therefore I have fitted a large impellor/capacity BMC Cooper S style engine driven water pump which should get the coolant to the back of the block/head.

Whilst the Davis Craig water pump is electronically and thermostatically controlled I have decided to fit a 82 degree thermostat to control the coolant heat up. To fit the thermostat I have had to fit the thermostat sandwich plate turned nearly 100 degrees. It has to be done this way as the Marina thermostat housing when rotated to meet the radiator top hose fouls the large heater outlet of the sandwich plate. To seal the sandwich plate heater take off outlet I have tapped the hole and fitted a tapered brass plug.

When taking off the original top hose and Davis Craig thermostat sensor which fits inside the top hose (similar to a Kenlow fan sensor) I found that the copper wire which bounds the sensor and wiring inside the top hose had been touching the inside of the Marina thermostat housing and due to electrolysis between the copper wire and the aluminium of the housing has allowed the thermostat outlet pipe to be eaten through. The electrolysis sediment was found to be nearly blocking the outlet of the thermostat housing. Luckily I have several Marina thermostat housings so no great deal. The electrolysis is another reasons for reverting to a normal water pump and thermostat. When fitting the Davis Craig electric water pump I removed the impellor from the water pump to give a clear run from the electric pump to the block. The non impellor pump just acted as relay shaft for the toothed belt alternator drive.

The electric water pump saves about 4 BHP against using the normal engine driven pump and to me BHP is all important.

Photos to follow.

We are getting there slowly.

Phil


ampwhu
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby ampwhu » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:36 am

Phil, the remote oil filter housing and pipe's, what are they off of? I guess you have a marina engine fitted where the oil filter is at an angle at the back of the engine and it makes changing the filter difficult.

philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:52 pm

The remote oil filter head is a Mocal after market item https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/mo ... ht-m-rfh3b The oil pipe is Dunlop oil pipe and the unions are available from Merlin Motorsport and similar retailers. The rubber oil pipe is secured to the union by stainless steel clips.

You do need the take off plate at the block filter base. https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/mo ... ds-m-top-1

Yes I do have a Marina/Ital 'A' Plus block with the angled upside-down oil filter. Having the remote oil filter allows me to prime the oil filter and oil pump before starting the engine. The oil filter is so easy to change as well with the additional benefit of no oil spills.


philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:34 am

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philthehill
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Re: oil Intercooler

Postby philthehill » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:37 am

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The coolant serving the oil intercooler is fed from the rear of the head and re-enters the cooling system via a 'T' connection in the top hose which feeds to the radiator and then back to the water pump which now has an impeller to circulate the coolant.
I have disconnected the Davis Craig electronic thermostat and fitted an 82 degree thermostat.
Coolant is free to circulate around the head before and after the thermostat opens.
The header tank is in the boot but coolant can be topped up via the brass filler plug in the top of the thermostat housing.



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