Removing the camshaft nut

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oliver90owner
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby oliver90owner » Mon May 04, 2020 10:45 am

All this talk of cold chisels, etc. I have found, in the past, that most lock-tabbed nuts (excluding rusted installations) are only difficult to remove because the locking tab is interfering - usually by multiple use or by โ€˜kinkedโ€™ metal while fitting or undoing the tab-lock.

Properly flattening the tab against the nut flats and little problem - but leave a small piece of the lock-washer to stop the nut turning (initially) and the torque required to loosen the nut is greatly increased.

kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Mon May 04, 2020 12:05 pm

Please refer to reply no 1 :D :D :D

panky
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby panky » Mon May 04, 2020 12:34 pm

I usually use an old main bearing shell to lock the flywheel. With the starter motor removed the shell will sit nicely between two teeth on the ring gear and lock against the back plate.
Image

IslipMinor
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby IslipMinor » Mon May 04, 2020 3:28 pm

If the engine is out, I use a G-clamp though the starter motor hole on to the flywheel (clutch also removed). Never had any problems undoing either the camshaft nut or crankshaft pulley bolt using this method. Use the same method for torquing up during the rebuild.

If you have a impact gun, there is no need to lock the engine, the impact itself is enough to undo either the nut or bolt.
Richard



jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Tue May 12, 2020 3:31 pm

Well, the locking tool arrived today and is great. It locks the flywheel nicely.
Unfortunately the cam nut still wouldn't budge with the socket alone.
However a couple of gentle but firm taps with a cold chisel and the socket was able to do the rest.
I am still glad to have the locking tool though, as it made it so easy when it came to torquing the new cam nut down (at 65 FT lbs).
Plus whenever I want to take certain nuts off it will be hanging up ready to use.
As I wasn't too violent with the old nut a bit of filing to return its profile and it fits neatly back inside the socket again, so it can be reused if I ever require it on an engine.
Win, win, I think.
The locking tool is a good and worthwhile addition to my toolkit. The hammer and cold chisel method achieved the desired result without too much brutality to the nut.
The Duplex kit itself is a straightforward fit, you just need to take care not to overdo the countersinking of the two bolts. The new ones are sitting nicely flush with the front plate now.
The hardest job in the end, oddly enough, was knocking the old seal out of the cover. Which broke up rather than be persuaded out, the plastic was that hard.
Been in there a while methinks.
Having done this and some other jobs around the engine the next task will be introduce it and the gearbox to the cars engine bay.
Time for some toasted crumpets, with cheese and a little garlic.........
Then a nice cup of tea. :D
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 am

well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o

oliver90owner
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby oliver90owner » Wed May 13, 2020 7:03 am

kennatt wrote: โ†‘
Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 am
well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o
Has it taken that long, just to remove one nut?!?๐Ÿ™‚๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 am

Thank goodness I have the correct tools for removing the camshaft nut and a hammer and chisel is not included in the list.

Phil


kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Wed May 13, 2020 9:46 am

yes ok phill but He bought the tool, and still had to resort to the old calibration tap with a 5 pound hammer :D ,I used to have more specialist tool than most,but when I moved house some years ago went through them all and discarded the ones I had bought and only used once,for example a wire crimping tool to remake the speedo drive cable square ends ,used once,cost a small fortune(at the time),would have been cheaper to buy 5 new cables. Sold all at an MBG rally boot sale. I still have far too many sockets,duplicated spanners etc.
I realise you are probably building and re building all the time,and your tools get used often, but for a once used tool,put away and forgotten about ,to me is a waste of money . Be interesting to hear if Jagnutt uses the tool ever again.If I live that long :D :D :D

liammonty
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby liammonty » Wed May 13, 2020 11:25 am

oliver90owner wrote: โ†‘
Wed May 13, 2020 7:03 am
kennatt wrote: โ†‘
Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 am
well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o
Has it taken that long, just to remove one nut?!?๐Ÿ™‚๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
Hardly surprising, given the predictions of imminent doom were Jagnut to wield the wicked cold chisel and hammer :lol: . Good that it's apart now, though, even if the 'correct tool' wasn't helpful in this case!

philthehill
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby philthehill » Wed May 13, 2020 11:42 am

The flywheel locking tool is only part of the proper tools required. The correct size shallow six sided socket with the concave removed coupled to a long breaker bar would see the nut removed.
Damage can occur to the front bearing and camshaft thrust plate and I having had to rectify the results of damage caused by persons not using the correct tools.
I will recommend again - use the proper tools and processes and the camshaft nut will be removed without damage to the nut and the person trying to remove it.

Also what example does it set to others trying to do the job properly - I would suggest not a very good example.

Phil


liammonty
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby liammonty » Wed May 13, 2020 12:15 pm

philthehill wrote: โ†‘
Wed May 13, 2020 11:42 am
The flywheel locking tool is only part of the proper tools required. The correct size shallow six sided socket with the concave removed coupled to a long breaker bar would see the nut removed.
Damage can occur to the front bearing and camshaft thrust plate and I having had to rectify the results of damage caused by persons not using the correct tools.
I will recommend again - use the proper tools and processes and the camshaft nut will be removed without damage to the nut and the person trying to remove it.

Also what example does it set to others trying to do the job properly - I would suggest not a very good example.

Phil
Personally, I don't disagree with any of your points here, Phil. I also agree about setting a good example. However, I do believe that a degree of measured pragmatism is also sensible in many cases :D .

pgp001
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby pgp001 » Wed May 13, 2020 1:05 pm

I have been listening in quietly on this one.

I totally agree with Phil's comments about the use of correct tools (and the correct use of tools)
If my late dad had ever seen me attacking a nut with a cold chisel, I dread to think how hard he would have clouted me. :D

The camshaft, and any other nut on a Morris was never designed to be loosened or tightened with a hammer and chisel.
They would have made the nuts with four sides if that was the case so the chisel was less likely to slip off :roll:

I know there will be probably a 50/50 split of opinion on this one, but those are my views on the subject.
But anyone who advocates butchering an engine with a chisel is just making excuses for not having the right tools.

Mole grips and adjustable spanners are among those tools that dont have much place in my workshop either.

Phil

jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Wed May 13, 2020 5:10 pm

In my defence:
I bought the locking tool (and I do think it is a very useful thing to have -- I do envisage using it again at some point), I also have a correctly sized socket, ground flat, into which the cam nut sits nice and snug.
I also used a breaker bar, with the locking tool in place, in my final attempt to remove nut 'in the approved manner'.
However it still would not budge.
So, as I said above, I resorted to a few firm but careful taps with the hammer and cold chisel, to free off the nut (I dread to think what it was torqued up to), after which I was able to wind it off with the socket and bar.
The fact it still fitted the socket proves I didn't overdo it and, as I also said above, I was able to file the small amount of damage to the nut back into shape after (it now resides with my other reusable spares).
I am at a loss as to what I am supposed to have done wrong.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

Trickydicky
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby Trickydicky » Wed May 13, 2020 6:45 pm

I am at a loss as to what I am supposed to have done wrong

You mentioned the words Hammer and Chisel when seeking advice on removing a nut....
It was akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.

kennatt
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby kennatt » Wed May 13, 2020 7:21 pm

:D :D as akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

We'll be discussing coils that never go wrong next :D :wink:

alawrence10360
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby alawrence10360 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:28 pm

โ€œItโ€™s never the coilโ€

oliver90owner
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby oliver90owner » Wed May 13, 2020 10:46 pm

One problem might have occurred long ago. The reuse of locking tab washers.

Or mangling the washer at time of straightening same will at least exacerbate any problem of easy removal.

jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Thu May 14, 2020 10:41 am

New nut and washer fitted, so hopefully it won't be an issue, should it have to be undone in the future......... fingers crossed......
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......

jagnut66
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Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Postby jagnut66 » Thu May 14, 2020 10:56 am

as akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

We'll be discussing coils that never go wrong next :D :wink:
โ€œItโ€™s never the coilโ€
You'll incur his wrath and he'll come back for you.................
Ghostly wishes,
Mike...... (cue manic laughter in the background)
Ghosts of Scottish train drivers and Morris Minor owners past..............jpg
Ghosts of Scottish train drivers and Morris Minor owners past..............jpg (76.12 KiB) Viewed 353 times
(credit for the picture to 'TheguyfromNorramby' on the internet)
1954 Series 2 on axle stands needing more welding......


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