Removing the camshaft nut

Discuss mechanical problems here.
Forum rules
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
oliver90owner
Minor Legend
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by oliver90owner »

All this talk of cold chisels, etc. I have found, in the past, that most lock-tabbed nuts (excluding rusted installations) are only difficult to remove because the locking tab is interfering - usually by multiple use or by ‘kinked’ metal while fitting or undoing the tab-lock.

Properly flattening the tab against the nut flats and little problem - but leave a small piece of the lock-washer to stop the nut turning (initially) and the torque required to loosen the nut is greatly increased.
kennatt
Minor Legend
Posts: 2625
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by kennatt »

Please refer to reply no 1 :D :D :D
panky
Minor Legend
Posts: 1994
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: Cheshire
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by panky »

I usually use an old main bearing shell to lock the flywheel. With the starter motor removed the shell will sit nicely between two teeth on the ring gear and lock against the back plate.
Image
IslipMinor
Minor Legend
Posts: 2147
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 9:10 pm
Location: Oxford, UK
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by IslipMinor »

If the engine is out, I use a G-clamp though the starter motor hole on to the flywheel (clutch also removed). Never had any problems undoing either the camshaft nut or crankshaft pulley bolt using this method. Use the same method for torquing up during the rebuild.

If you have a impact gun, there is no need to lock the engine, the impact itself is enough to undo either the nut or bolt.
Richard


jagnut66
Minor Legend
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by jagnut66 »

Well, the locking tool arrived today and is great. It locks the flywheel nicely.
Unfortunately the cam nut still wouldn't budge with the socket alone.
However a couple of gentle but firm taps with a cold chisel and the socket was able to do the rest.
I am still glad to have the locking tool though, as it made it so easy when it came to torquing the new cam nut down (at 65 FT lbs).
Plus whenever I want to take certain nuts off it will be hanging up ready to use.
As I wasn't too violent with the old nut a bit of filing to return its profile and it fits neatly back inside the socket again, so it can be reused if I ever require it on an engine.
Win, win, I think.
The locking tool is a good and worthwhile addition to my toolkit. The hammer and cold chisel method achieved the desired result without too much brutality to the nut.
The Duplex kit itself is a straightforward fit, you just need to take care not to overdo the countersinking of the two bolts. The new ones are sitting nicely flush with the front plate now.
The hardest job in the end, oddly enough, was knocking the old seal out of the cover. Which broke up rather than be persuaded out, the plastic was that hard.
Been in there a while methinks.
Having done this and some other jobs around the engine the next task will be introduce it and the gearbox to the cars engine bay.
Time for some toasted crumpets, with cheese and a little garlic.........
Then a nice cup of tea. :D
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
kennatt
Minor Legend
Posts: 2625
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by kennatt »

well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o
oliver90owner
Minor Legend
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by oliver90owner »

kennatt wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 am well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o
Has it taken that long, just to remove one nut?!?🙂👏👏👏
philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 10768
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: Hampshire
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by philthehill »

Thank goodness I have the correct tools for removing the camshaft nut and a hammer and chisel is not included in the list.

Phil

kennatt
Minor Legend
Posts: 2625
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by kennatt »

yes ok phill but He bought the tool, and still had to resort to the old calibration tap with a 5 pound hammer :D ,I used to have more specialist tool than most,but when I moved house some years ago went through them all and discarded the ones I had bought and only used once,for example a wire crimping tool to remake the speedo drive cable square ends ,used once,cost a small fortune(at the time),would have been cheaper to buy 5 new cables. Sold all at an MBG rally boot sale. I still have far too many sockets,duplicated spanners etc.
I realise you are probably building and re building all the time,and your tools get used often, but for a once used tool,put away and forgotten about ,to me is a waste of money . Be interesting to hear if Jagnutt uses the tool ever again.If I live that long :D :D :D
liammonty
Minor Legend
Posts: 1185
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Dartmoor
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by liammonty »

oliver90owner wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:03 am
kennatt wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 am well done at last,but I wouldhave had it off 10 days ago with the hammer and cold chisel :o
Has it taken that long, just to remove one nut?!?🙂👏👏👏
Hardly surprising, given the predictions of imminent doom were Jagnut to wield the wicked cold chisel and hammer :lol: . Good that it's apart now, though, even if the 'correct tool' wasn't helpful in this case!
philthehill
Minor Maniac
Posts: 10768
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: Hampshire
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by philthehill »

The flywheel locking tool is only part of the proper tools required. The correct size shallow six sided socket with the concave removed coupled to a long breaker bar would see the nut removed.
Damage can occur to the front bearing and camshaft thrust plate and I having had to rectify the results of damage caused by persons not using the correct tools.
I will recommend again - use the proper tools and processes and the camshaft nut will be removed without damage to the nut and the person trying to remove it.

Also what example does it set to others trying to do the job properly - I would suggest not a very good example.

Phil

liammonty
Minor Legend
Posts: 1185
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Dartmoor
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by liammonty »

philthehill wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:42 am The flywheel locking tool is only part of the proper tools required. The correct size shallow six sided socket with the concave removed coupled to a long breaker bar would see the nut removed.
Damage can occur to the front bearing and camshaft thrust plate and I having had to rectify the results of damage caused by persons not using the correct tools.
I will recommend again - use the proper tools and processes and the camshaft nut will be removed without damage to the nut and the person trying to remove it.

Also what example does it set to others trying to do the job properly - I would suggest not a very good example.

Phil
Personally, I don't disagree with any of your points here, Phil. I also agree about setting a good example. However, I do believe that a degree of measured pragmatism is also sensible in many cases :D .
pgp001
Minor Addict
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:05 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by pgp001 »

I have been listening in quietly on this one.

I totally agree with Phil's comments about the use of correct tools (and the correct use of tools)
If my late dad had ever seen me attacking a nut with a cold chisel, I dread to think how hard he would have clouted me. :D

The camshaft, and any other nut on a Morris was never designed to be loosened or tightened with a hammer and chisel.
They would have made the nuts with four sides if that was the case so the chisel was less likely to slip off :roll:

I know there will be probably a 50/50 split of opinion on this one, but those are my views on the subject.
But anyone who advocates butchering an engine with a chisel is just making excuses for not having the right tools.

Mole grips and adjustable spanners are among those tools that dont have much place in my workshop either.

Phil
jagnut66
Minor Legend
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by jagnut66 »

In my defence:
I bought the locking tool (and I do think it is a very useful thing to have -- I do envisage using it again at some point), I also have a correctly sized socket, ground flat, into which the cam nut sits nice and snug.
I also used a breaker bar, with the locking tool in place, in my final attempt to remove nut 'in the approved manner'.
However it still would not budge.
So, as I said above, I resorted to a few firm but careful taps with the hammer and cold chisel, to free off the nut (I dread to think what it was torqued up to), after which I was able to wind it off with the socket and bar.
The fact it still fitted the socket proves I didn't overdo it and, as I also said above, I was able to file the small amount of damage to the nut back into shape after (it now resides with my other reusable spares).
I am at a loss as to what I am supposed to have done wrong.
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
Trickydicky
Minor Legend
Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 pm
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by Trickydicky »

I am at a loss as to what I am supposed to have done wrong

You mentioned the words Hammer and Chisel when seeking advice on removing a nut....
It was akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
kennatt
Minor Legend
Posts: 2625
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:11 pm
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by kennatt »

:D :D as akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

We'll be discussing coils that never go wrong next :D :wink:
alawrence10360
Minor Fan
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by alawrence10360 »

“It’s never the coil”
oliver90owner
Minor Legend
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:33 am
MMOC Member: No

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by oliver90owner »

One problem might have occurred long ago. The reuse of locking tab washers.

Or mangling the washer at time of straightening same will at least exacerbate any problem of easy removal.
jagnut66
Minor Legend
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by jagnut66 »

New nut and washer fitted, so hopefully it won't be an issue, should it have to be undone in the future......... fingers crossed......
Best wishes,
Mike.
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
jagnut66
Minor Legend
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.
MMOC Member: Yes

Re: Removing the camshaft nut

Post by jagnut66 »

as akin to uttering the name of the Scottish Play that must never be spoken :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

We'll be discussing coils that never go wrong next :D :wink:
“It’s never the coil”
You'll incur his wrath and he'll come back for you.................
Ghostly wishes,
Mike...... (cue manic laughter in the background)
Ghosts of Scottish train drivers and Morris Minor owners past..............jpg
Ghosts of Scottish train drivers and Morris Minor owners past..............jpg (76.12 KiB) Viewed 9428 times
(credit for the picture to 'TheguyfromNorramby' on the internet)
1954 Series 2: 4 door: "Sally" -- Back on the ground with (slave) wheels and waiting to be resprayed......
1970 Triumph Herald 1200: "Hetty" -- Driven back from Llangollen in Wales (twice.....)
Post Reply