Can’t get grease in

[MorrisJohn]

While doing routine greasing I found it impossible to get grease into my drivers side track rod end and lower trunnion.

I have tried removing the nipples and soaking them in penetrating oil. After re-fitting still no luck. I then tried replacing the nipples with new ones - this didn’t remedy the situation either.

Is it worth squirting penetrating oil into where the grease nipple goes, or am I fighting a losing battle here and better off replacing these parts? I can’t feel any play in them at the moment. Thanks.

[ManyMinors]

Personally, I would take the components apart and clean them thoroughly prior to checking them properly. They are probably stuck full of old solidified grease and dirt. If they can then be lubricated and the joints still show no wear then all is good. However, if any obvious wear is then present the part should be replaced. Regular greasing is important on these cars - particularly the trunnion joints where you always need to check that the grease is actually flowing into the joint and back out at the other end of the thread and around the fulcrum pin too on the lower trunnion.
Trunnions which are packed full of old hard grease and dirt often appear to have no wear which is a potential danger of course. These are the ones which can fail and leave you stranded at the roadside so it is very important to pay attention to them

[myoldjalopy]

In addition to hardened grease and dirt, very neglected trunnions can be choked up with rust. As pointed out by 'ManyMinors' best dismantled and checked out. In worst cases, the steering may be rather stiff.....

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks for the advice. I have a couple of spare NOS track rod ends, so I’ll go ahead and replace both the existing ones. I’ve ordered a UK made replacement trunnion to replace the offending one. I might just end up replacing both lower trunnions to keep things even.

The ones that come off the car I will take apart as suggested, clean and examine at my leisure, retaining as spares if they’re suitable.

[philthehill]

If the threads of the swivel are found to have no flat on the top of the thread the thread is worn out and the swivel should be replaced.
The thread is 75% Whitworth profile.
Many of the later bottom trunnions do not have the baffle between the trunnion bushes, this allows the grease to exit the trunnion without going to the swivel threads. I would recommend that you fit bottom trunnions with the baffle as in the long term the trunnion threads will last longer.
When greasing jack up under the bottom suspension arm to take the loading off the swivel/trunnion threads which will allow the grease to move throughout the swivel threads. You can fit an extra grease nipple to the bottom trunnion but it must be fitted opposite the slot in the trunnion threads and at the bottom of the threads.

[MorrisJohn]

Many of the later bottom trunnions do not have the baffle between the trunnion bushes, this allows the grease to exit the trunnion without going to the swivel threads. I would recommend that you fit bottom trunnions with the baffle as in the long term the trunnion threads will last longer.

Thanks Phil. I always take the pressure off the trunnions before greasing. Do you happen to know if these ESM UK made trunnions have the baffle? As for what’s currently on it I’m not sure - they’re about six or seven years old.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morris-Minor ... 635-2958-0

[philthehill]

MorrisJohn
Unfortunately I have no idea if the ESM bottom trunnions have the baffle fitted or not.
The baffle is a loose tube fitted between the two trunnion bronze bearings and through which the trunnion pin fits. Its fitment ensures that the grease does not all exit the trunnion via the bottom trunnion pin. It may be a small part but it is an important part.

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks. I’ve contacted ESM for clarification. Once I know I’ll post here for future reference.

[Flywheel]

If the threads of the swivel are found to have no flat on the top of the thread the thread is worn out and the swivel should be replaced.
The thread is 75% Whitworth profile.
Many of the later bottom trunnions do not have the baffle between the trunnion bushes, this allows the grease to exit the trunnion without going to the swivel threads. I would recommend that you fit bottom trunnions with the baffle as in the long term the trunnion threads will last longer.
When greasing jack up under the bottom suspension arm to take the loading off the swivel/trunnion threads which will allow the grease to move throughout the swivel threads. You can fit an extra grease nipple to the bottom trunnion but it must be fitted opposite the slot in the trunnion threads and at the bottom of the threads.

Hi Phil, apologies for my idiot questions. Could I ask you how would I check the threads of the swivels on my own traveller?

Have you a diagram or photo that can show this please? I'm assuming that you are referring to the; king pin stub axle. Page 147 Haynes workshop manual?

I suppose that if those threads are that worn, that would make the car unsafe to drive eh?
With thanks as always, Jonnie

[kennatt]

phill will answer,but to check dissemble to examine the threads,the tips should be flat,if worn to a point then the suspension needs replacement and is likely to collapse. No way of checking without removing the trunnions from the king pin.
With regular greasing,they last for years. Many of us oldies on here have probably experience of a trunnion collapse ,Mine (about 1966 ) was at slow speed when three point tuning .Top trunnion popped off pin ,wheel and pin fell outwards dropping car onto chassis. 10 miles from home.( Since its well past the statute of limitations re traffic offences) I found a length of fencing wire forced the trunnion back onto the pin strapped the whole arm with the wire and drove it home at 10mph.
It is said that they Usually collapse at slow speed as above,but don't take that as gospel could be very drastic if at high speed. Since that date ,every moggie I have ever acquired ,has had a strip down and examination within days of pick up and a regular check every two or three years. But as said grease, grease grease ............. grease.
Good luck.

[philthehill]

You will have to dismantle the trunnions from the swivel (not king pin which is a totally different animal) so as to be able to examine the swivel/trunnion threads.
I do not have a Haynes manual to compare with the BMC manual. There is no clear drawing of the swivel threads in the BMC manual but I do have a technical drawing (curtesy of Ron Thomas) of the swivel threads.

Minor trunnion threads.jpg (83.81 KiB) Viewed 817 times

The threads are 3/4" x 11 TPI and are of Whitworth form i.e. 55 degree slope to the thread. Note the flat top to the threads.
I would suggest that the flat top to the thread is there to allow grease to circulate around the threads easier than would be if a full profile thread was employed.
As I said above if the threads are sharp then the threads are worn out and the swivel(s) and trunnion(s) must be replaced. Thankfully the collapse of the front suspension nearly always happens when the vehicle is travelling slowly and on full steering lock.
If there is any doubt as to the serviceability of the swivel/trunnion threads the suspension should be stripped and examined.

[jaekl]

Phil, you describe a tube between the bushings in the lower trunnion. Is this a late in production change? Over here 59 is by far the most come vintage and I've never seen a tube in original trunnions. Did they actually make a design improvement late in the run? I do have a 67 but haven't worked on it yet.

[philthehill]

The baffle tube is an original fitment not a later modification. My 1957 produced Minor had the tube fitted to its bottom trunnions.
I have dismantled several early and factory fitted bottom trunnions and all were fitted with the baffle tube.
I will dismantle a factory supplied trunnion with baffle tube, photograph the parts and post those photos on here.

Well that did not turn out as I had hoped! I used the hydraulic press as I have done in the past to remove the bushes and baffle tube. This time the baffle tube collapsed and when fully removed and examined it was made from very thin approx 0.015" thin wall steel tube. This is of no problem as I can machine down one of the spare trunnion bushes I have to suit. It only has to slide into the bottom trunnion and sit between the two trunnion bushes, it carries no load unlike the trunnion bushes.
I may even be able to use a NOS shortened forged rocker bush. But for the moment I will not try removing the baffle bush from another NOS bottom trunnion. Unfortunately these things happen

[ManyMinors]

This copy of an exploded view is taken from the original Morris Minor factory parts list and shows the item Phil is referring to as item no 24 . The factory simply call it a "distance tube".

[MorrisJohn]

Thanks for the explanations and diagrams, and really sorry to hear of your problem today Phil.

I’ve got the car booked in to a Minor friendly garage in a couple of weeks for some other work. Rather than giving it a bash and learning as I go this time I shall add the lower trunnions and track rod ends to the other planned work. I need a roadworthy car for drive it day!

[MorrisJohn]

The response from ESM in relation to their UK made lower trunnions: “ Having checked these trunnions I can confirm that they do not have any sort of baffle in between the two bronze bushes.”

How can a “trunnion kit” be sold missing what seems to be an important part?

Do you suggest that I return this trunnion and instead look for a NOS version? Surely there are many cars running around with trunnions like this if that’s how they’re being sold?

[philthehill]

Item No: 24 is the grease baffle referred to. It is not really a spacer as it does not come into contact the either of the two trunnion bushes. It just floats between the two bushes making sure that some grease is deflected to the swivel threads.
So long as the grease is getting to the swivel threads I would not be too concerned about the baffle not being in place but if you can obtain trunnions with the baffle so much the better.
Bottom trunnions can be obtained which are fitted with an additional grease nipple which directs grease straight to the swivel threads which in some ways negates the need for the baffle.
You can fit the additional grease nipple without any difficulty & which should be fitted opposite the vertical internal slot of the trunnion and near the bottom of the swivel threads. If fitting the grease nipple make sure that all drilling and tapping swarf is removed before use.

[MorrisJohn]

Bottom trunnions can be obtained which are fitted with an additional grease nipple which directs grease straight to the swivel threads.

Thanks. I’ve had a look at the usual suppliers, and eBay, but can’t seem to find any with the additional grease nipple. I’ll keep looking.

If I can’t find any I suppose these ones will need to do.

Interesting that part 24 on the diagram above doesn’t feature on up to date diagrams.

[Flywheel]

Hi Kennett & Phil, thanks for your explanations and diagram.
All the best Cheers.

[jaekl]

It is a design change. The later parts book has the distance piece and also two sets of lower trunnions with different part numbers. The later ones apply after car number 1083886. I had looked at four used trunnions that still had the original bushings in place, no tube. It's definitely a good idea and probably added due to thread failures. I had re-bushed my Marina but don't recall seeing any. Maybe BL just couldn't justify the cost.