Impossible to stop water leak

[James k]

Hi,

Since I bought my Traveller in 2014 it's leaked water into the rear driver's footwell. Since then I've tried seemly everything to stop it. Sealing the roof seam, sealing all around the b post and centre rail capping, sealing all the seams around the floor. None of this has worked.

The wood has now been completely replaced, the car resprayed and all new seals fitted with sealant everywhere it's supposed to be. It still leaks water! It fills up whenever it rains and the floor is soaked and rapidly rusting.

I noticed today that the front drain hole in the centre rail wasn't draining any water so I drilled an additional hole in the runner to 'link up' with it. Pouring water in the runner showed that it was working. However, with the windows shut and testing with a hosepipe, I still have exactly the same problem. From the outside, it all looks tight and sealed but clearly there must be a problem.

The passenger side is absolutely bone dry. I can't see any difference in how things are arranged on either side so I just don't understand how one side is fine and the other leaks hugely.

I've spent eight years trying to solve this problem with no success and I'm now getting to the stage where I'm thinking of selling the car so that it doesn't rust to pieces. I've spent so many thousands of pounds over the years having the chassis, wood and various bodywork repaired but this one water leak seems to evade all efforts.

If anyone has any suggestions on things to check I would greatly appreciate it. It's driving me absolutely insane

Thanks,
James

[Sleeper]

James

Two man job? Someone on the outside with the hosepipe and you on the inside looking?

John ;-)

[James k]

Okay, I've taken some photos and video to see if anyone can spot the problem.

Here's a video showing where the water enters on the driver's side and the lack of water on the passenger side.

https://youtube.com/shorts/x29pPJYYCRE?feature=share

Driver's side

PXL_20221026_151523108.jpg (1.86 MiB) Viewed 2834 times

Passenger side

PXL_20221026_151535372.jpg (1.94 MiB) Viewed 2834 times

Dry passenger floor

PXL_20221026_151554348.jpg (2.63 MiB) Viewed 2834 times

And the destruction being caused to the driver's floor

PXL_20221026_151602019.jpg (2.85 MiB) Viewed 2834 times

I can't see any difference between how the sides are put together but somehow one side leaks and the other doesn't.

Thanks,
James

[simmitc]

A long shot, but have you renewed the seal between the glass and the stainless handle? The Traveller is a lovely car, but I have sometimes wondered if they were designed to leak, but I've not seen that much coming in through the side before. Although you have sealed everything, you could try removing the capping so that you can see where the water is coming from and then work back from there.

[oliver90owner]

Fluorescein is your friend when tracing difficult-to-locate leaks.

[panky]

Did you put a bead of sealant between the interior wooden trim and the glass runners before screwing them on?

[James k]

Hi,
There is sealant between the capping and the runners, making it hard to remove for inspection.

What's confusing me is the way it runs over the top of the runner when it appears to be sealed in the same way as the inside.

I'm going to try dribbling water more slowly to try and find the exact point it enters.

Oliver, thanks for the tip re fluorescein.

Thanks
James

[James k]

Okay, I've been out there for another hour with a jug of water. With the window open, the water doesn't enter but when closed, it starts spilling over. I took another video.

https://youtube.com/shorts/baz1x521iNk?feature=share

I've found a temporary solution to the main spilling over, made out of some Chinese takeaway container.

PXL_20221027_112010751.jpg (2.07 MiB) Viewed 2718 times

This has stopped the water coming over the top but there's still a drip from underneath the capping. I've put some Captain Tolley's down there, which did emerge from underneath, so I'll try a few goes of that before resorting to removing the capping. I'd really like to avoid that as it's stuck in place with loads of sealant and I'd also have to take the back seat out.

Thanks,
James

[mobylette]

If the Tolley's runs out too easily, try PVA adhesive, does the same job but is a bit thicker.

[panky]

I had a similar problem before the re-build and added a fillet to the bottom edge using a window seal I had in. It pushed between the runners and the glass (no picture of the front bit bit sorry). I had used the softer, comes on a roll, runners so not sure if the normal type will be flexible enough to push the fillet seal in.





Section of the seal I used

[James k]

I've been dribbling in Captain Tolley's at regular intervals since yesterday and it's no longer running out the bottom. Since it was initially running out of the same place as the water, I'm hoping this means that pathway is now blocked. I'll give it a try with some water tomorrow.

[Mark Wilson]

Keep posting, please. I've an identical problem - I've drilled the extra hole and filled the B post joint with silicone (which I normally don't allow anywhere near the car). But, being impatient, I fitted the capping and panels without testing again. Having read this I think I'll have to take a few steps back - it's stuck in the garage at the moment with the seats out for carpet fitting

Where have you been dribbling the Captain Tolley's?

Good luck!

Mark

[James k]

I've just tested it with some water and nope, it's still leaking. If anything it's now worse. Back to the drawing board!

[Mark Wilson]

I've just been out and tested mine as well as I could in the garage using a hand operated spray bottle. I put about a litre of water quite rapidly on to the joint where the glass meets the B post, which had been leaking very similarly to yours, and (fingers crossed) none seems to be finding its way inside.

Having looked properly at your video, my leak was slightly different from yours, as I never saw the water emerging above the runner, it manifested itself at the joint of the horizontal and vertical cappings. What I've done is drill an extra drainage hole at the front of each of the timber channels, then used silicone to seal off the channel ends and some gaps in the joint with the B post. I also made sure there were decent holes in the runners to provide drainage into the channels.

If I've understood properly you've already made extra holes in the runners, so it could be that the timber channels are filling up and preventing further drainage. If this is the case my method may help, although it does mean removing the cappings and runners, which as you know already is a pain

[James k]

That's good to hear that yours seems to be fixed. I think I'm going to have to resort to removing the capping. A daunting task since it involves removing the back seat and somehow separating the capping with all the sealant attached! If it's got to be done, though...

I'm wondering if perhaps I could put some plastic sheeting between the rail and the capping, sealed in place, to add additional sealing against water. I'll try and figure it out once I've got the capping removed.

It's a good thing I (still somehow!) love Morris Minors as they're such a constant headache compared to owning a modern car! Every time I think I've got one thing sorted, something else comes up.

[ManyMinors]

The capping is only held on with a handful of screws. There should be no need to remove the rear seat. Yes, there should be sealant behind the capping but that clearly isn't doing the job anyway, so as you say, you're going to have to take it all apart and get to the bottom of the problem At least it is only one side!

[Mark Wilson]

Do you need to remove the back seat? I did, as it happens, as a bit of misalignment of the seat and armrests stopped it folding forwards, but in a "normal" (is there such a thing?) Traveller the seat should fold forwards out of the way. When I removed the capping in mine (twice) to try and resolve the leakage issue I eased it off gradually using a bluntish chisel starting at the back. You probably know this, but you need to swing the capping upwards once it's loose and pull backwards to clear the metal cover channel. I had to tape the front catch up out of the way as well.

Not sure if a plastic liner will achieve any more than two strips of a dum dum type mastic, which is what Steve Forman of Woodies recommends. When I remade my trim panels I used 3mm plastic Foamex board as I suspected they may not stay dry for ever!

[James k]

After having to actually scoop water out of the car after heavy rain on Thursday morning (passenger side was bone dry), I've got round to removing the capping. Water is certainly getting in from under the capping at a specific point, as shown in the picture below. It seems to be coming in at the end of the runner. I've attached a video to show this. I want to make sure I get this right before sealing the whole thing up again. What's the best way to sort this?

I wonder if perhaps the capping is slightly short and therefore doesn't make a good seal with the end.

Thanks,
James

IMG-20221119-WA0005.jpeg (945.67 KiB) Viewed 2466 times

And the video:

https://youtu.be/oXNr-EWvGf4

[panky]

When I did mine I put a piece of butyl sealant at the end of the runners so it squished out under and around when they were fitted sealing it tight, I used the same sealant behind the waist rail trim on the join of the runners . The car was left out the other night in torrential rain all night and not a drop got in - I was very surprised and my drive has quite a slope.

This is the stuff I used. It can be stretched out if you find it too thick for the job.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332389805180

I also made sure the drain holes in the channel were directly over the drains in the waist rail,

[James k]

I think I've identified the problem and hopefully(!) fixed it. We'll see...

I found two problems. The first was that the capping was a tiny bit short of the end so the water could run out between the gap. I added a short length of plastic to 'extend' the capping and block the gap. I blocked it up with lots of Tigerseal, shown below.

IMG-20221120-WA0002.jpeg (842.38 KiB) Viewed 2388 times

The second problem took a while to spot. I noticed that the water was draining very slowly from the front drain hole. I pushed a knitting needle down and found that there was sawdust in there. I then spotted the source of the sawdust and a larger blockage. The screw for the capping lined up exactly with the drain hole and was blocking it. This seemed to be having a double effect. Firstly, stopping the water from draining and secondly allowing water to seep back through the screw hole and underneath the capping. I blocked it up with some sealant and moved the screw hole.

IMG-20221120-WA0004.jpeg (962.49 KiB) Viewed 2388 times

PXL_20221120_132452126.jpg (1.72 MiB) Viewed 2388 times

I then reassembled it with two thick beads of Tiger Seal between the frame and the capping. We'll see if it worked when it rains next. I doubt I'll have to wait long!