Brake line fixing - really?

[Nickol]

For those of us in Germany who have a Morris Minor which needs its bi annual test akin to the MOT in Britain, this will not be a new experience of the inconsistencies in testing of our classic cars.

The tester has just failed my 69 Traveller due to the brake lines fixing , in his opinion, not being sufficiently supported at the back, the middle and at the front. This is a new one to me. I have never touched them and in the previous two tests the car has had, were never mentioned. I am assuming that the lines are exactly as the factory installed them. Ok , I can install a few clips here and there but I wonder if the lines attached to the rear axle had anything special - zip ties? oh no, please not!

I will have look later today to see what can be done.

[svenedin]

Originally there were metal straps securing the metal brake pipe to the back axle. Now most people use cable ties. See this diagram, part number 63

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-m ... 51-71.html

As far as the rest of the run of brake pipe goes, it is supported by metal tabs attached to the underside of the car.

Stephen

[simmitc]

Remember also that it essential for the pipes along the rear axle to have a little freedom as the slave cylinder has to slide up and down to operate the trailing shoe in reaction to the leading shoe being applied by the piston.

[Nickol]

Thankyou both for the feedback and especially the Moss line diagramme. There are still the tags to support the brake lines as well as the fuel line and wiring harness to be found. They do not seem to be a firm grip and although do support the various lines in position, they do wobble about a bit. Perhaps that was the inspector's problem, I do not know? I have already started to insert additional supports.

So cable ties are a bona fide method of fixing to the back axle! That is ok then.

[geoberni]

It's fairly obvious where the original metal clips are on the body shell and the rear Axle only had a single metal strap on either side, as illustrated.
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/search/dif170

There is only one place where an actual separate metal spring clip is fitted, and that, at least on the RHD cars, is on the longitudinal member near where the clutch pedal linkage is.
As it's not marked as RHD specific, I must assume that it is also fitted on LHD vehicles.

Pipe Run.JPG (118.22 KiB) Viewed 3840 times

Are the TÜV testers allowed to have a personal opinion over and above that of the original specification.?

This is the underside of a newly restored LHD Traveller in Germany, if you're allowed to challenge their opinion...
http://cathedral-classics.com/car/morri ... traveller/
This image is of the underside:
http://cathedral-classics.com/wp-conten ... WA0032.jpg

If the tester is concerned about the pipe being a loose fit in the metal body clips, I would suggest short sections of rubber hose, split lengthways and inserted as extra support against any chafing.

[Bill_qaz]

Berni, on your drawing isn't the LHD pipe run shown as the dotted?
Using clip shown as 21.

[geoberni]

Berni, on your drawing isn't the LHD pipe run shown as the dotted?
Using clip shown as 21.

You're right I missed that clip, there is a LHD specific clip, #21, down on the Cross member.
I think the Clip #2 is still used though as they don't annotate that as RHD...

Interestingly, the restoration Image I linked to earlier does not have the Brake Pipe cross over from LH to RH side, it carries on down the Left.... perhaps we'd better not tell TÜV

http://cathedral-classics.com/wp-conten ... WA0032.jpg

[Nickol]

What a lovely clean underside in that Cathedral classics pic - I surmise in practice, it would not look like that for long if used every day. It is one of the problems with these tests, the inspectors here seem to want all cars to look like that.

My LHD Traveller was converted that way by me. It had already the brake enhancer fitted so the initial pipe run went directly from the master cylinder to there and what came out to the front and rear stayed as it was - thus I have no line crossing over on the longitudinal member. All I did at the time was to run a new line up to it which was shorter than the RHD version and the rest was kept the same. Actually I suspect that his note of "front brake line fixings defecient" refers to the brake lines connected to the brake enhancer which are in mid air - but have always been like that and twice approved by the previous tester. Now that the brakes are working so well and knowing what a bind it is to bleed the bleeding brake enhancer, I am reluctant to change anything.

The personnal opinion of the tester can be challenged and often as not you can talk to the bloke concerned. I have had this before and we checked on a website to see what the original was. As the brake enhancer is not original, you are on stony ground. There is also a sort of ombudsman you can go to if you want to, if you really feel hard done by. But as is nearly always the case in life, this costs, takes time and effort and the outcome is not guaranteed. As my old boss used to say - having rights and getting your rights are two different things entirely. Thus it is easier just to follow what he wants. But I will download the sketch and present it when the retest is being done.

The other problem he writes, nothing to do with brakes, is that the Koppelstanger (connecting arm, lever arm) on one side at the rear , the "(rubber) bushes are shot". Trouble is I cannot see where there is aproblem and assume he means the shock absorber arms ;the left side looks the same as the right anyway, which is apparantly ok. Just have to ask him next week.

I could do without this.

[svenedin]

Does he mean the damper drop links? There are bushes in these links at the top where the arm is connected to the underbody of the car.

[Bill_qaz]

Screenshot_20230816-172243_eBay.jpg (46.64 KiB) Viewed 3792 times

Nickol You can buy rubber lined "P"clips which you can put over the piping without disconnection and secure to a surface or suitable bracket.

[Nickol]

Does he mean the damper drop links? There are bushes in these links at the top where the arm is connected to the underbody of the car.

That is what they are called! I would think so but I have to ask. As stated before I see no difference between the left side or the right and he complained specifically to the left. In any case, they look ok to me.

[Nickol]

Nickol You can buy rubber lined "P"clips which you can put over the piping without disconnection and secure to a surface or suitable bracket.

I do have some very similar plastik clips but without the "rubber?" lining, which are used on Audi cars. I installed a few today just by drilling the chassis rails and using self tapping screws. Works quite well.

[svenedin]

Does he mean the damper drop links? There are bushes in these links at the top where the arm is connected to the underbody of the car.

That is what they are called! I would think so but I have to ask. As stated before I see no difference between the left side or the right and he complained specifically to the left. In any case, they look ok to me.

They might look ok but perhaps the inspector tested the suspension and found excessive play in those bushes. They do wear out. Here is a photo of mine (I changed them recently)

Stephen

IMG_9181.jpeg (2.03 MiB) Viewed 3764 times

[Nickol]

I took some pictures thi smorning but it seems , the next problem appears as the computer tells me all the pictures on the storage card are damaged and cannot be downloaded. It is one thing after another.

However, now I reckon that the test inspector has confused the flange on the rubber to be an expulsion. On the right side, you do not see the flanged rubber so much. Pity I cannot show the pics. Will order the bits and replace both sides anyway.

[svenedin]

I took some pictures thi smorning but it seems , the next problem appears as the computer tells me all the pictures on the storage card are damaged and cannot be downloaded. It is one thing after another.

However, now I reckon that the test inspector has confused the flange on the rubber to be an expulsion. On the right side, you do not see the flanged rubber so much. Pity I cannot show the pics. Will order the bits and replace both sides anyway.

Yes the bushes have a “shoulder”

[Nickol]

Camera hat corrected itself.

IMG_1400.JPG (405.47 KiB) Viewed 3666 times

IMG_1399.JPG (318.56 KiB) Viewed 3666 times

To me , the LHS looks reasonable, not new but reasonable. the RHS not quite so - but the left he did not like!

[myoldjalopy]

As I mentioned in a different thread, check the link itself while you're at it, the rubber on that may have deteriorated as well as the bushes.....

[Nickol]

Yes I am going to remove both arms, clean them up, put in the new bushes when they arrive (it takes a week now) and off we go!

[philthehill]

The bushes in both links shown in the above photos are worn out and should be replaced soonest.
If you have some spare new shackle bushes use them trimmed to size. The shackle bush is the same as the damper link bush except for the length and they are more than adequate for use in the damper link eye.
No need to wait for purpose made bushes.
Or you could as I have just done a use a single standard shackle or eye bolt bush with a rubber or nylon washer against the chassis leg. The two bushes are a fiddle and flex/squash too much.
For this application I would err against using a poly bush as they are too firm and the link where it pivots on the chassis leg pin needs to articulate in more than one direction/plane.

[Nickol]

Hallo Phil,

Yes they will be replaced soonest and need to be now for the TüV man. I intend to remove the damper, clean it up and replace the oil as shown on other threads here ( by yourgoodself included) . I am sure it has hardly ever been changed and certainly not in the 12 years I have had the car.

I do not think I have any spare schackle like bushes but will have a look in my collection (=chaos) because that looks like a good solution and if it stems from you, it must be ok!