Can’t get my daughters car to start

[Myrtles Man]

I didn't make the suggestion based on the necessity or otherwise of pumping oil around the engine before it starts, it was merely to enable Elaine and her Mum to get a feel for how much choke Elaine's Minor actually needs for it to start satisfactorily in various situations and varying ambient temperatures. I'm pleased to see that it appears to have helped...

...after following your tip she’s been spot on over the past 6 days

[oliver90owner]

Guys,

Elaine and her daughter will soon learn the minimum choke action required to get the engine started promptly under the prevailing conditions.

Nobody knows, as as far as I’ve seen, whether operating the choke actually makes any difference for the first few mm, for instance

I am confidant that both ladies are able to modify the operation suggested (to increase the mixture richness progressively) for cold-starting. And will do so over a short period.

The basic operation is clearly working for them - so please let’s just leave them in peace to gain more experience. I am sure they will minimise the starter operation needed, as time progresses - if they have not been doing it already.

Those who have been running such engines, utilising this now out-dated/superseded system - the carburettor - for years, likely know quite precisely how to best start their engine(s).

I just had a rough count of such engines i actually own at this moment - it’s over twenty! Not all (would) require exactly the same procedure in order to get them running reliably. It does not include some engines in “kit form” and not all those counted are operational at the present time. Most of them are hand-started (some with crank handles, some cord started and only a few have electric starts).

[Elainesminor]

Hello again Guys

I hope your not squabbling between yourselves about which way I should be doing things etc , I’ve actually learned a lot from you all about a minor , especially the first 1/8” of choke isn’t actually choke but fast idle and also the accelerator not flooding it by pressing it , the way we are starting her by using both hands and operate the key and why she’s turning over pull the choke out is working great , with it being much colder of late we’re both giving her about 1/3 choke first then turning her over then pulling out the choke till she starts, by doing it this way and being rather swift getting the choke out she’s only turning over for 2-3 seconds and it doesn’t matter which one of us is starting her she reacts the same , the only thing I’ve noticed is if Chloe comes home from work at say 5pm , parks on the drive and I go to my slimming class at 8pm ( not that I’m fat lol ) she doesn’t want to start without the choke , she’ll try but not quite whereas last Sunday she did start but stalled 3 times , I try twice but when she won’t start I give her about 1/3 choke and she starts no bother , once on the move and into 3rd gear I can push it in , my slimming class is only 1/2 mile away but after 90 minutes at the class because she hasn’t warmed up enough she won’t start unless I give her a bit choke , I’m guessing the colder it gets the less time she’ll stand before needing choke to start ?? , regardless of her quirks we both love her to bits and I think I’m converted lol

Thx so much for all your help

Elaine and Chloe x

[Myrtles Man]

"...Elaine and her Mum..." - Oops! Sorry, Elaine (and, indeed, Chloe) but from your original post where you wrote about your daughter's car under the 'Elaine's Minor' heading I rather got the wrong end of the stick. Apologies to both of you.

Herman.

[myoldjalopy]

"I’m guessing the colder it gets the less time she’ll stand before needing choke to start ??"
Absolutely correct, Elaine. And on a hot summer's day, you may find no choke is required at all.

[Elainesminor]

Good afternoon everybody

Choke mastered !!! , with it being cold and damp what both of us are doing if starting from cold at home is pull the choke out half way then using both hands, left on the key and right hand poised on the choke then turn the key and pull the choke out swiftly till she starts , usually not taking more than 2 seconds of cranking then leave it out fully till we back out the garage, I know both hands are not what you guys and girls do but it’s working for us so we’re quite happy to continue.

Up to now Chloe has only done proper cold starts , ie from the house in the morning or after work so a minimum of 9 hrs standing but she went out Saturday night with her friend to the pub for a karaoke night ( soft drinks only ) , they’d been there 3 1/2 hrs and on coming out the car was covered in ice, after scraping the windows and getting in , ignition on and once primed she turned the key and she started 1st try, she gave her a couple of revs then let the revs drop to tick over while she put her seatbelt on but she conked out , she restarted her and backed out the parking bay and obviously clutch in and foot on the brake to stop she conked out again but started up no problem, she said she’d only moved 10 meters and stopped to let someone back out and it stalled again , after starting her again she made her way to the exit and as she was stopping it stalled again , Chloe’s friend asked her what was wrong with her , Chloe said I’m not sure , she can’t need the choke cos she started 1st try when we came out the pub , if she hadn’t started then I would have used the choke , anyway she started up no problem again and she got to the exit and she stalled again but started 1st try again , somebody flashed her out and she went for a speedy get away and apparently she kangarood for a few metres then conked out , she turned the key but Chloe said she only turned over so she applied the handbrake and took her out of gear and tried again and she started , this time she used plenty of revs and managed to get going, she said as she was going through the gears she was spluttering as she was trying to accelerate but didn’t stall anymore, what I wanted to ask you was if she does stall and your at a junction and say in 1st gear ready to go and she stalls , is it ok to keep the clutch in and leave her in gear while I restart her or should I put her in neutral and start her ??

Elaine x

[philthehill]

It is perfectly alright to keep the clutch depressed when in 1st gear and at the same time starting the engine.
Years ago it was the norm to depress the clutch when starting.

[myoldjalopy]

If the car was "covered in ice" then all the stalling, puttering, kangerooing etc. is almost certainly due to not using the choke! Yes, it may have started up but the engine would have been very cold and in need of some choke to accelerate and drive the car.

[Elainesminor]

If the car was "covered in ice" then all the stalling, puttering, kangerooing etc. is almost certainly due to not using the choke! Yes, it may have started up but the engine would have been very cold and in need of some choke to accelerate and drive the car.

I experienced that the other Sunday after doing some shopping, she kept stalling in the supermarket car park , now knowing that if I’d been Chloe I’d still have tried without choke but after the first stall then her spluttering I’d have given her some choke to keep her running but Chloe just assumed cos she started and especially 1st try that she didn’t need to use it , it’s a learning curve for her but I bet she doesn’t do it again , if I’m honest covered in ice and 3 1/2 hours I’m surprised she started 1st try !!

Elaine x

[Elainesminor]

If the car was "covered in ice" then all the stalling, puttering, kangerooing etc. is almost certainly due to not using the choke! Yes, it may have started up but the engine would have been very cold and in need of some choke to accelerate and drive the car.

That’s what I thought when Chloe told what she’d experienced and even though she started, with the stalling and spluttering I’d have 100% have given her half choke to keep her running but that’s Chloe for you , she’ll learn eventually, the main thing is she did start and keep re starting and she didn’t flood her , she’s only 26 and this is her 1st car after passing her test but she’ll get there

Elaine x

[Edward1949]

Years ago it was the norm to depress the clutch when starting.

Yes. And my modern car won't start unless clutch is depressed. Older readers may remember when depressing the clutch on a really badly worn engine could provoke a stall and hinder starting. The reason was crankshaft thrust bearings being so worn that the crank was pushed slightly out of alignment from the cylinders !

[Elainesminor]

Hi guys

I was just wondering what you actually do or what’s the best thing to do if you flood a moggy ?

Chloe went to work this morning and the car stood all weekend and started within 2 seconds this morning using the 2 handed technique which is working for us , she came home at 1pm , I went to go out at 2.30 ish so she’d only stood 90 minutes and although she started 1st try she stalled on tick over as I was putting my gloves and seatbelt on so automatically thought she was cold so I’ve used the 2 handed start technique and as I had the key turned I’ve swiftly pulled the choke out to full but she didn’t even try so pushed the choke back in and repeated the process, after 4 attempts Chloe came to the door and said “ mam I think you’ve flooded her “ , what do you do when flooded ?

Thx

Elaine x

[Elainesminor]

Sorry guys

What I meant to add at the end of that message was when totally called i.e. first thing in the morning in the garage or after a full day at work she starts no problem using the two. Handed method of key and choke. The problem seems when she is left between 90 minutes and 3 1/2 hours where I have flooded her this afternoon, and Chloe had multiple stalls the other day when she went out and because she started first try after coming out of the pub, she assumed she did not have to use the choke, but as you have pointed out, she must have been very cold to keep stalling after 90 minutes standing. Do you think I would’ve been better off trying her again without the choke? , thinking about it, I think I would rather have multiple stalls than risk, flooding the engine by using the choke.

Elaine x

[geoberni]

what do you do when flooded ?

Thx

Elaine x

It depends on the age of the car, if it has a separate Pull start. My SII, I can crank it over without turning the Ign On, so with no fuel pump running and no spark, it can to some extent, 'blow out' the excess fuel .

It's more of a problem with a Key Starter.
You could try disconnecting the cable from the Fuel Pump, but don't left it touch the body work

Otherwise just leave it 15 minutes....


I do wonder if all these Stalls indicate the mixture is not right....

[Elainesminor]

what do you do when flooded ?

Thx

Elaine x

It depends on the age of the car, if it has a separate Pull start. My SII, I can crank it over without turning the Ign On, so with no fuel pump running and no spark, it can to some extent, 'blow out' the excess fuel .

It's more of a problem with a Key Starter.
You could try disconnecting the cable from the Fuel Pump, but don't left it touch the body work

Otherwise just leave it 15 minutes....


I do wonder if all these Stalls indicate the mixture is not right....

Hiya

Chloe has just been out to see if she can get her to start , she didn’t use any choke as it’s only 2hrs 40 minutes since coming home from work and she started 1st try but after a couple of revs she let her tick over but stalled after a couple of seconds, she started up next try but slightly spluttery as she tried to rev her but gave her a few decent revs , on tick over she ran for 3 or 4 seconds then the car shuddered and she stalled again but at least she didn’t flood her so personally I’d rather have her stall than flood , is that ok to do it like that ?

Elaine x

[Myrtles Man]

In the sort of starting situations that you describe, are you using the fast-tickover choke position or just pushing the choke fully home? Any time you do overuse the choke and end up with a flooded, non-starting engine, the usual remedy is to push the choke right in, press the accelerator to the floor, hold it there and operate the starter till it fires up.

[myoldjalopy]

2 hours 40 mins (even 90 mins) is enough for the engine to go cold, especially in winter. A little choke would have probably been in order. Regards flooding, as PTH pointed out much earlier in this thread - 'If you feel that the engine is flooding due to over use of the choke - press the accelerator fully down and give the engine a quick turn over. That should clear any sign of flooding.'

[Elainesminor]

In the sort of starting situations that you describe, are you using the fast-tickover choke position or just pushing the choke fully home? Any time you do overuse the choke and end up with a flooded, non-starting engine, the usual remedy is to push the choke right in, press the accelerator to the floor, hold it there and operate the starter till it fires up.

Morning

You’ve just reminded me about the fast idol on the choke , neither of us remember it’s there so both of us use the choke as a choke , I might put a sticker on the dash to remind us , just a question, if she’s stood 3 hrs she’ll start but probably stall, will the fast idol stop her stalling once started after 3 hrs ? , I’m gonna make a note of choke in and foot to the floor and turn the key if we ever flood her again , ohh and she started 1st try after less than 2 seconds for Chloe this morning so she’s definitely mastered cold start from home and after work

Elaine x

[Myrtles Man]

... just a question, if she’s stood 3 hrs she’ll start but probably stall, will the fast idol stop her stalling once started after 3 hrs ?

Probably, but there's one sure way to find out...

[myoldjalopy]

Hello Elaine,
Consider this as an example of choke use. I needed full choke to start this morning but almost immediately set to half-choke when the car was out on the drive. After half a mile, or so, I put the choke back fully and everything was fine. I drove for about 15 miles, by which time, of course, the engine was fully warmed up, and had been for some time. I then parked up for about 2 1/2 hours. When I returned, the car started up OK without choke, but I could tell from the hesitant throttle response that she would stall if I tried to pull away. So I set the choke to about 1/2 way, drove off and pushed the choke back fully after about 1/4 mile. The point of this story is to clarify that even if the car will start from cold without use of the choke, the engine may still be too cold to drive successfully without a little choke until the engine is warmed up enough not to need it any more.