Morris Minor Owners Club

I worked in Dover years ago and foreign drivers on the wrong side were a common sight. This was before the cliff flyover was built and all the traffic went through the town. Fortunately they couldn’t go fast there and seeing the other traffic soon put them right. Even so a juggernaut on the wrong side of the road is a pretty alarming sight. There was a stretch of dual carriageway where they couldn’t cross over even when they realised they were on the wrong side.

Much as I sympathise with the bereaved parents this sort of disorientation is common and I don’t think it really justifies global extradition except perhaps if there are aggravating circumstances such as drink, drugs, racing etc.

ianmack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:29 am I worked in Dover years ago and foreign drivers on the wrong side were a common sight. This was before the cliff flyover was built and all the traffic went through the town. Fortunately they couldn’t go fast there and seeing the other traffic soon put them right. Even so a juggernaut on the wrong side of the road is a pretty alarming sight. There was a stretch of dual carriageway where they couldn’t cross over even when they realised they were on the wrong side.

Much as I sympathise with the bereaved parents this sort of disorientation is common and I don’t think it really justifies global extradition except perhaps if there are aggravating circumstances such as drink, drugs, racing etc.

You DON'T agree that she should be extradited back here to face the court action she sneaked out of the country to avoid? Wow! Just... wow...

As far as I am aware this was an honest mistake which can carry a custodial sentance but usually does not. Should all people involved in road accidents or possible offences be prevented from leaving the country?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But if you really want absolutes, then Yes.

I suspect there is more at work here than her being the spouse of an 'intelligence officer'.
She may also be a spook in her own right.
Somebody decided she needed 'extraction', just like in all the best Movie plots.
Look how difficult it has been for the media to get hold of any photograph of Anne Sacoolas other than an old B&W image that looked like it was from High School.
I firmly believe she should be brought back for trial; given the UK Justice system, she'd probably only get a suspended sentence given the circumstances.
My point is the vilification of the Base and it's personnel.
The mother was on TV this morning saying the USA doesn't have narrow roads like the UK.
She has clearly never been to the original 13 British colonies i.e. East Coast States, where there are plenty of UK style lanes because many of the towns originated in the 1700s.

Instead of hyping up bad feeling towards the personnel and the families living there, how about a review of the driving licence requirements for US personnel and their families?
Towards the end of my time in the RAF I spent 3 years in Nevada. The rules were that I could drive on my UK licence because I was on a NATO Visa to the US; my wife however, although on the same Visa type, had to get a US Driving License.
Apparently, for some 50 years, it hadn't been the case, but someone had then looked at the small print and discovered that it wasn't clearly laid out in the NATO agreement so Spouses were to obtain a local license after all.
In fact, most of us even though not mandatory for the 'uniformed person', got a local license as it was good to have a US ID document.

Admin wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:00 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But if you really want absolutes, then Yes.

I do not accept for one moment that this is a straw man argument. There are vast numbers of road crashes around the world every day and the principle of extradition for those accused of motoring offences carries very serious implications for anyone involved.

Given that much of the world has lower judicial standards than the UK it could rebound badly on British drivers for a start.

ianmack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:27 pm Should all people involved in road accidents or possible offences be prevented from leaving the country?

... is a strawman argument - I did not suggest that all involved in road accidents shouldn't be able to leave, I suggested that Sacoolas shouldn't have been allowed to.

I would also suggest that the vilification in the press of US base personnel is, while lamentable, solely the responsibility of the US judiciary and/or Sacoolas herself rather than of the Dunn family, who I support using any tools at their disposal to bring attention on the miscarriage of justice that is currently preventing them getting justice for their son. If the reverse had occurred, you can be flipping guaranteed that the responsible party would be packed off to the US forthwith, failing which the Orwellian phrase 'extraordinary rendition', more accurately known as kidnapping, would be back incommon parlance

‘Sacoolas shouldnt have been allowed to leave’ The law doesn’t work like that. It operates in terms of general principles, not individuals.

I should add that the last time I drove abroad, I had a big red arrow on the dash, pointing right as I left Caen, which I reversed when I got back to Portsmouth a week later!!

ianmack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:13 pm ‘Sacoolas shouldnt have been allowed to leave’ The law doesn’t work like that. It operates in terms of general principles, not individuals.

To be honest, you could have stopped your sentence four words after the quote...

I imagine,if she’s a half decent person, that she is probably suffering anyway. But she should come back and face the music,voluntarily. Tragic for all involved.

To go full circle and return to the original post about 'smart' (cobblers) motorways, even our MP's are now admitting the All Lane Running motorways are monstrously dangerous and should be rolled back to their previous state immediately https://bbc.in/3avUGOm

(and just a quick clarification, since one of our members has called into question whether or not club officials should be 'allowed' to have opinions, my comments in this thread are mine only and do not reflect 'club' policy)

and just a quick clarification, since one of our members has called into question whether or not club officials should be 'allowed' to have opinions

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, whether others agree with it or not.
If they disagree they can then state their opinion and so on...……. that's how freedom of speech works.
And it was still a free country the last time I looked.
Best wishes,
Mike.

" that's how freedom of speech works.
And it was still a free country the last time I looked. "

How long ago did you last look ?

John ;-)

As Voltaire may or may not have said I disagree with what you say but I still defend your right to say it.

Far from paying any attention to the increasing voice against 'smart' motorways, or reading the petitions calling for them to be returned to conventional motorway, the Highways Agency are actually looking to increase them

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... ic-3786640

" with the hard shoulder often being opened up to traffic in the event of congestion. "

or in the case or Manchester , all of the time.

John ;-)

At the end of the day there is nothing the public can do its left to the powers that be

Apparently there is a petition to scrap these (In my opinion) dumb motorways - http://chng.it/86gcnb6JpC .

Ah, that wonderful petition site that encourages you to send money and share your details. Much more effective is to use the Government petition site, which, if sufficient signatures are received, could lead to a debate in the House of Commons. https://www.gov.uk/petition-government.
There have been three previous petitions, but each got less than 2,000 supporters. However, that was a while ago, before the current publicity; so it may be that now is the time to start a new one.