Scary brake problem

[GBond]

After finishing a complete nut and bolt restoration in December I've been using the pickup quite frequently, so far doing about 2500 miles this year. Lately it had been working perfectly so I decided to take it out for the weekend to Antigua Guatemala which is a nice colonial city not too far from where I live.

The drive down there is a very steep downhill winding mountain road which if driven spiritedly can give the brakes on even a modern car a good workout. As the pickup had been working so well I decided to drive down with a bit of gusto and predictably the stock drums were hot and smelly once I reached the bottom but still (just barely) were able to stop the car.

I left it parked with the handbrake off while the brakes cooled and on the drive back two days later the car felt a little sluggish but I thought it might just be some rust in the drums from the very humid weather and being parked for two days and it would wear off during the drive. About three miles from home when I pressed the brake pedal it went down to the floor and the car swayed from side to side; I have had this happen before on another car where the brake fluid boils and the brakes go down to the bottom and had been expecting it to happen so I was not doing much over 20 MPH. The car felt much more sluggish from that point on but since I was already very near I decided to press on for the last couple of miles (It was at night, no traffic).

I was expecting it to be one of the rear drums since they'd been acting up with small leaks and sometimes locking before the fronts (probably just lack of weight back there) but it was actually the right front wheel that was much hotter than the rest.

The inside of the drum was predictably full of dust and one of the cylinders was both stuck and leaking.[frame][/frame]

Further disassembly found the cause of the problem; many years ago when my father began the restoration he had the original cylinders sleeved, and my spirited driving combined with the silicone brake fluid were pushing out the sleeves.[frame][/frame]
The heat even managed to melt the plastic piece that goes inside the cylinder...[frame][/frame]
My father thinks with a bit of welding around the top the sleeves won't come out again (they're iron, not copper) but I'm thinking about just buying new cylinders, shoes and hoses from ESM and perhaps fixing the sleeved ones to keep as spares.

Does anyone have any good/bad things to say about these parts? I'll be getting:
FBK106 Front Left Cylinder (Lockheed)
FBK105 Front Right Cylinder (Lockheed)
FBK121A MINTEX Brake Shoes
CBS122 Rubber Brake Hose

Still have to check the other side as well as the rear, but I'm hoping to get away with only doing the front. I broke the hose accidentally while removing it from the cylinder and I'm not sure if I want to go for the braided ones.

Any recommendations/tips/warnings are welcome, regards!

EDIT: A friend sent me a good picture of the truck in Antigua Guatemala, here it is![frame][/frame]Several British tourists asked about the car and one even called her mother who lives in London since she had owned two Morris Minors.

[bmcecosse]

Lovely truck! I would go with 4 new cylinders NOT the pattern ones ! And just stick with standard brake hoses...

[GBond]

Additional question, how do I know if my drums are still OK to use? I measured outer wall thickness at 7.02 mm (.276 in) but there's no data on the Haynes on minumum thicknesses.

[bmcecosse]

They'll be fine! But next time - go down the hill in the same gear you would use to go up, and save the brakes!

[GBond]

My father said it would be quick and easy to push the sleeves back into the original cylinders (only one had drifted out far but the others were starting to) and add some points with the MIG.

It was most certainly NOT quick and easy and a lot of grinding was required to get the pistons to move freely again but it does look like it might work. (I'll post some pictures, just from the description it wouldn't seem like it.)

The grinding was done only in the outer edge and on the first 3-4 mm into the cylinder, the part where the rubber seal goes was untouched and it looks perfect. I'll still get new shoes and hoses from ESM so I'll be driving the Seat this weekend.

The brakes were the first things I did when I began restoring the car a few years ago and doing them again I notice how much I have learned since then. Apart from the problem with the drifting sleeve the rear brakes were a mess with bad seals and neither piston moving freely. I'm excited to drive the car again with the brakes properly sorted as I'm sure it will be a much more enjoyable experience.

I still have one last doubt, what is the difference between the front brake adjusters and the rear? (8" fronts) I've noticed the ones I have on the rear have the same shaft diameter on both sides while the ones I have in the front are thicker on one side but as far as I can see the cam profile is the same.

EDIT: Adding picture of repaired cylinder, the outer edge doesn't look perfect but at least now the sleeve is welded to the cylinder. The inside wasn't touched and I did give everything a very thorough cleaning before reassembly.[frame][/frame]

[kennatt]

In such a hilly area,I would be thinking about a front disc conversion,it would sort out the brake fade,boiling situation,but suppose bits would be very hard to get out there.If not impossible.

[plastic_orange]

I'll second the disc suggestion, well worth it, and a lot less maintenance once fitted, plus you'll stop .

Pete

[GBond]

Thanks for the recommendations, I've actually been looking at the disc conversion kit from ESM since they do ship internationally and I've already bought quite a lot of spares from them. However, once carriage costs and import duties are added I end up paying almost twice the price that's on the website and for brakes which are very heavy items it might be even worse.

Hills are not usually that much of a problem, I was driving quite enthusiastically in order to stress the brakes a bit and find weak spots, which I did. The pickup still has its original short differential (4.55?) which helps a lot when going downhill or even also in heavy city traffic both of which are more common than motorways over here.

While disassembling I also found some problems on the rear cylinders and also my pads had been contaminated with grease and brake fluid so I'll be getting new ones along with new copper washers for every line union to avoid any leaks and will report once I do a test drive.

EDIT: Pete, just saw your bike in the signature, I'm currently restoring a BSA B31 to keep the Whitworth spanners turning and although I've never driven it from what I've read the brakes on it are purely hypothetical so that's probably going to be scary/fun? once it's done.

[bmcecosse]

Just drive within the limits of the brakes.....8" drums are perfectly fine for any sane motoring on a 'standard' Minor.

[aupickup]

yep thirded for discs i have had 2 minors with discs and was very impressed and so much better than the drums and less maintenance