Concours & the Concours Final at the NEC.

[Judge]

Having attended the Liaison Meeting prior to the MMOC AGM, and also having read an article in a recent branch newsletter, I am of the opinion that there may be some misunderstandings in respect of Concours within our club which need clarification.

Firstly, it appears that within certain quarters there is a view that a degree of elitism exists in respect of those involved in Concours, and that these people have no time for other aspects of Minor ownership. Also that everything revolves around concours. This could not be further from the truth, and it is exactly this kind of misconception that I have been trying hard to dispel in my time as Chief Judge, fortunately with some success I feel. In my view concours is simply another form of Minor ownership in which certain members have a particular interest and therefore should be regarded in exactly the same manner.

Another misconception appears to exist in relation to the MMOC stand at the NEC. This seems to revolve around the idea that those involved in concours want it to be soley reserved for concours cars. Again this could not be further from the truth.

As you may know, I took over the position as MMOC Chief Concours Judge in 2001, having personally competed at concours level for a number of years and finally attaining Grand Masters status in 2000. Until this time it had been normal practice for the Club to hold their Concours Final at the NEC Classic Motor Show, whilst the Barnsley Branch of the MMOC had their own separate stand. Having the view that all interests within the MMOC should be valued equally and not treated as factions, and wanting to show this to the general public, instead of what I considered to be a devisive two stand show I suggested a combined stand to include a themed section and a concours final. This suggestion was realised in the 2001 show and the club immediately won Best Club Stand. This combined stand continued in 2002 and 2003 with great success in all respects, public support, the signing up of new members, renewals, considerable regalia sales etc and also a further win, on that occasion as runner up. Unfortunately however it was decided that for the 2004 show concours cars would not be involved.

Now whilst I personally feel that concours cars should return to the NEC, in no way do I want this to be at the exclusion of others. It should certainly not be reserved for their exclusive use. Yes, I have an interest in concours examples, but equally I enjoy using a Morris Minor as everyday transport, and feel that the whole club should be represented at the NEC no matter what the individuals particular interest. In fact, for exactly this reason. I find it more than a little ironic that it is those interested in concours that now appear to be excluded.

With best regards to ALL Minor enthusiasts,

Bill Hewlett

MMOC Chief Concours Judge & Interim Committee Member.

[Kevin]

In my view concours is simply another form of Minor ownership in which certain members have a particular interest and therefore should be regarded in exactly the same manner.

I agree with you completly Bill and although I personally am not really interested in a Concours car myself I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into it just the same as the Custom vehicles of which I dont wish to have one either because if we all had the same type and level of cars we would be soon become a boring lot instead of the interesting mixed bunch of individuals that we really are.

[Judge]

Thank you for your support Kevin, very much appreciated.

[bigginger]

I'm in total agreement too. I don't have the patience, time or interest to prepare a concours car, but very much appeciate other peoples end results, as I am sure they appreciate my amateur bodgings and non-standard fittings.

a

[Chris Morley]

I'm also in agreement, there's plenty of room in the MMOC for everyone no matter how pristine or scabby their Minor is. Personally I haven't got the spare time or patience to create a concours car, but I can certainly appreciate the hard work involved in a concours restoration and I do understand why these cars live in nice dry garages for most of the year while their owners drive modern cars.

However I'm also aware that keeping an everyday car on the road year-on-year requires a fair amount of time, money & commitment as well. Without these kind of owners the Minor would now be a rare historical relic only appearing as a polished exhibit at classic car shows - instead it's a living design icon which continues to play a very useful part in many owner's lives. The Minor's appeal and it's practical usefulness is the main reason why it continues to attract new owners - indeed the MMOC itself would now be rapidly decreasing in size and suffering from an aging membership profile were it not for the car's continuing appeal. And the thriving spare parts industry would be history.

Just the other day I found two young lads staring at my car as I came out from a shop and caught one of them saying to the other 'what a beautiful car'. There's a prospective Minor owner in ten years time!

[guydenning]

Just the other day I found two young lads staring at my car as I came out from a shop and caught one of them saying to the other 'what a beautiful car'. There's a prospective Minor owner in ten years time!

I hope you told 'em that you don't need a chip and pin card to start a morris minor - you just slap half a dozen pink shield stamps on the dash and off it goes...

[Cam]

I'd just like to add my agreement as well, Bill. I personally would like (as you know) to get my 1952 MM up to concours standard and compete which after conversing with you seems possible. I do feel that you are really trying to break down the barriers of 'the elite' which would have put me off from competing. You don't need the best example and like sports, it's not always about the winning but the taking part!

I have a modified Minor as well as the MM and a standard traveller which hopefully (one day ) would be an everyday car, so I can see appreciate ownership from a variety of angles. In fact (like Kevin) the only type of Minor I don't much care for are the custom ones, but I can appreciate the time and effort and engineering skill that goes into creating one.

So, in short I agree with your combined stand and I think (as has been proven) that it's an excellent idea that should be implemented. And long may you continue to break down the barriers to concours! Grand job!

[rayofleamington]

Also that everything revolves around concours. This could not be further from the truth, and it is exactly this kind of misconception that I have been trying hard to dispel in my time as Chief Judge, fortunately with some success I feel.

From my perspective I think you're doing a good and proactive job of acheiving that!

I love concours cars for 2 reasonds - firstly for the sheer beauty of them and the hard work that has gone in, but secondly because they give a great reference point to many other owners who are doing simple resto jobs and want to know what it was meant to look like.

Any big club will have factions and (real and imaginary ones too) and within various groups of people some will be more chatty and others will be a bit clicky - That's life really but what I find impressive in the MMOC is how every different group is respected.
There are certain things which I don't like, such as the 2004 national, where the Concours were given pride of place at the front (which is fine) but the customs were well away from the main crowd almost as if someone didn't really want them there. Some of the customs have had just as much time/effort/expertise etc... on them, and also attract a lot of interest, so deserve a good spot close to the front as well.
I doubt there was any ill-intention with the rally planning as the MMOC is better than that, but these things can leave an impression.

[Benjy]

I have to agree. Concours minors are a joy to look at and as Ray says, an excellent reference point.

I'd love to have the time and expertise to show a concourse car, but at the moment am struggling to just keep mine on the road - and in my opinion, on the road is where they belong. I love driving my car and I love the "tweakability" of it, adding bits here and there, dreaming of ways to make it more like my ideal car (it comes pretty close already).

As has already been said, it is the diversity of members that makes the club so popular, but I must confess to having once though of concours competitors a little elitist, something I realise is not true. It is great to see that there's room in the club for every type of minor owner.

[Vernon]

I don't see any posts from Concours people (except Judge). Does this mean they are too elitist?

[rayofleamington]

I don't see any posts from Concours people (except Judge). Does this mean they are too elitist?

I guess they find it difficult to use a keyboard wearing those lint free polishing mittens ;-)

[Cam]

And they are probably too busy in the garage!

[Judge]

soon become a boring lot instead of the interesting mixed bunch of individuals that we really are

I could not have said it better myself Kevin. In my view this is exactly why we have a successful club, and why I believe that we should all respect each others individual preferences if we want this success to continue. By doing this we not only have a club we enjoy belonging to ourselves, but we also project an image that will hopefully encourage others to join.

I don't see any posts from Concours people

No I don't think it has anything to do with elitism, and no Ray & Cam, I don't think it is anything to do with polishing mittens or garages either!!! However I will take this opportunity of asking if there are any concours people reading this forum, and if so, ask them to join in.

[grainger]

mmm theres never much activity in the concours forum, which is a shame.

i personally love to see minors prettied up .. we all see our own minors through those kind of rose tinted specs, i spose were all 'into' cars one way or the other and to see a really pretty one is great. i could not afford to do it, and im not the sort of person who likes antique things that have to be kept in a glass cabinet ... but i do polish my traveller more than i used to polish the brand new polo we had a few years ago.

great to hear of your efforts to get more involved though

cheers
grainger

[Kevin]

Well the 2 from my branch are not surfers unfortunatly.

[Judge]

Well Kevin, don't you think it's time they were? I'm sure with your persuasive powers you can convince them of the benefits.

Anyone else?

[rosiethemorris]

While my car is condition 1, but not concourse, I have nevertheless found the concourse examples at recent Nationals excellent reference points for how mine would have looked when new, and what concourse owners I have talked to have always been nothing less than polite and couteous, always willing to discuss their cars and give advice.

However, as Ray has already mentioned, why are the concourse cars always given pride of place at the National Rallies, always right in front of the stately house, main marquee or whatever?!! To me, this DOES smack of elitism, although I'm sure not intentionally.

Come on National Rally Organising Team, if every type of Minor, whatever the condition, is equally welcome in the MMOC, surely it is time to start rotating the various classes each year so that all types of Minor get their chance to be up front, and also take their turns at being in the 'outfield', as the modifieds so often seem to be.

Paul.

[woo]

Personally I don't have a problem with the concours cars being right up front. I think they give a good impression to the punters about how nice the cars really were. If I go to a classic car show or rally I prefer to see pristine examples of different models and in reality the concours model is the best example to show. Once I became more involved with moggies it was then that I wanted to see how well a 'working' car could be kept, what sort of modifications folk made to them and how far from the production models some people could take them.

Talking about 'cliquey' and 'elitist' is just another way of describing what we all do. We have a general relationship with those that share our broad interest, and a better relationship with those that share a particular subset of this interest. This is often seen as a clique by those of a different subset, who frequently fail to see that the same charge could be laid on them.

[Judge]

While my car is condition 1, but not concourse,

Who is to say you're car is not Concours. Why not book in to the National or a Regional as Merit Concours and give it a go, you might be surprised.

However, as Ray has already mentioned, why are the concourse cars always given pride of place

This may be historical, as apart from being advised where the Concours area is to be, I really have no input. However as both my youngest daughter and myself use modifieds as every day transport, I can fully understand this point of view.

[les]

It's the first time I've thought of a 'front' and 'back' at the national, too busy enjoying it!