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E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:59 pm
by surfergirl
Hi all.
I'm hoping to set the valves this weekend and wondered on a anyone's thoughts on E10 petrol. Is there any benefits to larger or smaller valve gaps? We've only got E10 in the little petrol station near me so I've got no choices but to use it.
Thanks.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:23 pm
by simmitc
There's a Branch & Register Liaison Meeting this weekend with a report on E10 from our FBHVCC on the agenda, so we may be able to report more next week.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:45 pm
by kevin s
I can't imagine there would be any need to go from the standard settings, it has less energy in it than petrol.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:55 am
by surfergirl
That's interesting I didn't know that. I thought I had read it burned hotter.
Thanks
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:57 am
by liammonty
I thought I'd read that it burns hotter, but could be wrong. In any case, unleaded fuel in general burns a little hotter than leaded, so setting valve clearances to 14 thou in place of the standard 12 thou may be helpful, and won't have any disadvantage. I do that on my lightly modified engine, on the recommendation of the camshaft manufacturer.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:31 pm
by Monty-4
Higher ethanol content may actually be easier on the valves and cooling system as it burns cooler, but require the mixture to be run a little richer as its stoichiometric is more like 6.5 vs 12.5 for gasoline. Perhaps the resulting lean burn if the mixture isn't adjusted would cause the engine to run hot, but it shouldn't when tuned properly for the fuel.
That said, 10% - E10 - might not be enough to notice yet, but perhaps if/when we get to E25-30.
Other advantages include a cleaner burn (less crap deposited on piston tops, valves etc.), more pre-ignition resistance (MON), and non-toxic fumes.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:46 pm
by surfergirl
So E10 may be an improvement then?
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:45 pm
by kevin s
It does burn faster then petrol though so at low concentrations you can get a slight increase in heat output (1 or 2%), by about E15 the lack of energy in the fuel compensates for the faster burn and the peak temperature stabilises. Although ethanol has a higher mon E10 is still sold at 95 which makes me suspect they may have taken some other anti knock compounds out so I would be careful advancing the timing.
They have been running up to E100 in south America for years it would be interesting to research what they have changed for that.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:21 pm
by JOWETTJAVELIN
It's all a money-making con by the controlling few. Ethanol has a lower calorific value and this has been known for a very, very long time. How ethanol is made isn't very environmentally friendly, but it does make a few filthy rich people even richer, which is all that matters.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:08 pm
by simmitc
From today's meeting: There will be a full article and report about E10 in the next issue of Minor Matters, so as long as you're a member of the MMOC then you will have all the FACTS (rather than rumours) at your finger tips.
To answer the OP, no need to change valve clearances.
The biggest problem is storing the petrol if the car is not used frequently as the fuel "goes off", so an additive may be helpful. E10 also contains more oxygen and so the car may run weak, but a simple adjustment to the carb will cure that. Each car will be different.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:11 am
by kevin s
Sounds like the same advice that's been around for ages, the one thing which is always missing is any proper scientific evidence that the additives work or a standard for them to meet, have this been looked at?
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:39 am
by simmitc
Just look for "FBHVC approved", or check the Federation's website for a list. The approved additives have been researched properly, and any that are not approved are missed off for a reason. The federation claims to be independent and not influenced by industry.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:51 am
by Edward1949
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:16 pm
by geoberni
Not really, it's the same old list of what may/might be affected, but in all honesty, when it comes to individual vehicles, it's about as useful as the mandatory list of side effects that comes in a packet of tablets. Does everyone have as much concern about the medication they take as this is bringing up?
It can be summed up as there
might be some components in your vehicle fuel system that
could be affected.
So keep an eye on things like fuel pump diaphragm and hoses.
As to the actual 'combustion properties', the mixture will be a bit leaner so you might have the need to adjust it.
Some countries have had E10 for years. Brazil has had a minimum of E20 since 1977....
I'm going with Pat Goss.... this video is from 2013...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE5jbDqAz-M
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:13 pm
by win
Hi all
This might help remove one area of concern.
/
www.classicandsportscar.com/features/ho ... -fuel-tank
My last 2 tank fill ups were E10, no problems so far, no adjustment's made.
New pump diagram and fuel pipe flex fitted, in the last 3 years, I have just now drained tank, and run fuel out of carb, just to be safe.
Apologies for and grammar errors.
Kind regards Win
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:58 am
by dp
If you have a look on youtube you can see how to easily remove the ethanol from fuel -if it’s presence is a problem. And also that the fuel additives don’t seem to help the corrosive effect of ethanol.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:29 pm
by oliver90owner
Separation is simple. Ethanol is far more miscible with water than hydrocarbons. I just worry that the safety precautions - or lack of - might end up with people blowing up themselves and their garage due to stray sparks.
It has been a well demonstrated problem with some idiots making biodiesel or distilling alcohol, for instance.
Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation is one. Not mixing with power tools is another. Closed vessels, as far as possible. Preferably done outside, not indoors. Fire extinguishers available. Suitable clothing and PPE. Might be more….
Some youtubers are idiots, so don’t rely on everything you see on the internet.
Edited to add that the octane rating will generally be reduced, so start with the ‘super’ variants - more expensive, but less Ethanol to remove.
One could also use the subnatant part as windscreen wash, for freezing conditions
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:25 pm
by geoberni
oliver90owner wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:29 pm
Separation is simple. Ethanol is far more miscible with water than hydrocarbons. I just worry that the safety precautions - or lack of - might end up with people blowing up themselves and their garage due to stray sparks.
It has been a well demonstrated problem with some idiots making biodiesel or distilling alcohol, for instance.
Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation is one. Not mixing with power tools is another. Closed vessels, as far as possible. Preferably done outside, not indoors. Fire extinguishers available. Suitable clothing and PPE. Might be more….
Some youtubers are idiots, so don’t rely on everything you see on the internet.
Edited to add that the octane rating will generally be reduced, so start with the ‘super’ variants - more expensive, but less Ethanol to remove.
One could also use the subnatant part as windscreen wash, for freezing conditions
I love that new word I've just learnt....
subnatant.
I totally agree about the number of Idiots around, and many of them aren't even on youtube, they could be living near anyone.
Like the woman filmed buying large bottles of water at a garage, emptying the water in the bin (for some reason, like, erm it's just expensive water) and then filling the plastic water bottles with petrol!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkRX2p9wH4
Apologies for drifting off topic a little.
Re: E10 petrol and valve settings
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:32 pm
by liammonty
It’s good that it is indeed possible to remove ethanol from petrol, but given that that will lead to a 10% reduction in volume, and therefore close to a 10% increase in relative cost, I’ll stick to buying super unleaded - it’s also around 10% more expensive but there’s no need to worry about removing ethanol and blowing oneself up
. I’ve also been using the odd tank of E10 in my cars - a sidevalve MM, 948 Minor, Wolseley Six, Citroen DS and a T2 VW. No problem with any of them, and given that I use it only from time to time, and it doesn’t sit in the tanks for ages, I don’t anticipate any problems.