calling the police

[Classiccars]

What ever the mode of transport some idiot will buy it and abuse the rules of the road putting other at risk.Would be nice if they were banned for a good length if time as a lesson.

[les]

‘Banned for a good length of time’ ——— that did make me laugh.
Mind you perhaps we need baddies, if we were all good we wouldn’t need the police, or the armed forces come to that, nor security guards, bouncers, courts and officials, prisons, not to mention weapons, the list goes on. Think of the unemployment that would cause. I wonder if God knew how things were going to turn out, here on Earth ?

[myoldjalopy]

I guess he understimated the Devil's influence!

[stuffedpike20]

To put this into perspective, there are a minority of irresponsible cyclists, just as there are a minority of irresponsible motorists, but to then demonise all cyclists/motorists is not helpful. Certainly the idea, expressed earlier, that cyclists routinely wish to 'literally mow down men women & children & flee the scene laughing' is ludicrous.

The latest version of the Highway Code has given cyclists a way of coping with 'terrible motorists'.
Cyclists are now allowed to ride in the middle of a lane in front of cars; and are not oblige d to use a dedicated cycle lane if they don't want to.
( Don't quite understand that one).
So no need to cycle on the pavement.

There are an estimated one million illegal E scooter riders, and rising. As an 'angry, bitter old man' I am going to stick my scrawny old neck out and guess that 100% of them scoot on the pavement a lot of the time, because the UK does not have the right infrastructure for such small wheeled vehicles.

[Maurice_Minor]

Maybe many cops are fed up with all the PC claptrap. A few months ago I was rocketing around a bend (Not in the Moggie) near the foot of Box Hill & pulled up for speeding by a cop with a speed gun. He was quite young & looked exactly like Matt Hancock. Anyways he started asking me all these stupid questions like, 'What sex would you identify with?" I answered, "Isn't it obvious?". "Answer the question please sir!" he dryly replied. Anyway this went on for 10 minutes checking the car all round, my details etc etc.
Anyway, I was good humoured about it all, especially since I already had points on my licence. He then asked for an explanation for my speed, "I then blurted out, "Actually, officer, today I have been identifying as a giraffe & my right hoof got stuck between the accelerator & the brake pedal, thus propelling me to the speed that caused you camera to sound an alarm!" He just looked at me & then continued looking around the car. I thought "what have I done?"
He stood there prodding at his hand held computer thing then said, "Im sorry sir, I seem to have pressed a button that has caused your offence to be deleted!"
I was gobsmacked as I know about computers & they will always ask "Are you sure" before they delete anything. Anyway that was that. To this day I think he secretly thought my giraffe joke was funny & let me off.

[Murrayminor]

Sorry everyone...E scooters again.


If I phone in every time I see an illegal E scooter, (happens every day) will the details always get logged down; and will the local police department potentially be awarded more officers because of the multiple public order offences?

If I phone in every time I see an illegal E scooter, (happens every day) will I be noted down as a trouble maker and eventually told to stop harassing the police?

Thanks. John.

Good evening
I'm a bit late to this conversation but are you aware not all E-scooters are illegal?
I have worked with two companies setting up E-scooter hire in the Manchester area and they seem to well received.

One of the companies who provide this service have zones where the E-scooters can be ridden and if you were to leave that zone the scooter is disabled and an alert sent to the operator and also the hire company .

If the manufacturers installed a similar system then everyone could use them, but as always there are a few who spoil it for the many.

[stuffedpike20]

Sorry everyone...E scooters again.


If I phone in every time I see an illegal E scooter, (happens every day) will the details always get logged down; and will the local police department potentially be awarded more officers because of the multiple public order offences?

If I phone in every time I see an illegal E scooter, (happens every day) will I be noted down as a trouble maker and eventually told to stop harassing the police?

Thanks. John.

Good evening
I'm a bit late to this conversation but are you aware not all E-scooters are illegal?
I have worked with two companies setting up E-scooter hire in the Manchester area and they seem to well received.

One of the companies who provide this service have zones where the E-scooters can be ridden and if you were to leave that zone the scooter is disabled and an alert sent to the operator and also the hire company .

If the manufacturers installed a similar system then everyone could use them, but as always there are a few who spoil it for the many.

Yes, we have a scheme in my area too. Set up after the meeting of the Transport Select Committee, and unfortunately recently extended.

Not as sophisticated as your scheme. If a citizen sees a trial E- scooter riding on the pavement, they can phone a number and report the offence. The rider who hired the scooter is then not allowed to hire one again. The only problem is that nobody phones to report the offence....not even me! There are herds of them at times, and the identifying 'number plates' on them are often missing or obscured.
Just about every E scooter rider, either in the trial, or illegal ones, rides on the pavement. To report them would literally be more than a a full time job. The system is not fit for purpose. The hire firm will use the fact that hardly anyone reports illegal use as proof that everyone is happy to accept their scooters.
Many illegal E scooter users use their scooters because they see the trial scooters in use and assume that all E scooters are legal. Most of the ones I have talked to KNOW that their scooters are illegal and use them anyway. Retailers are supposed to tell purchasers that they can only use their scooters on private land with the land owners permission, but they don't.

Can I ask you Murray, is your scheme sensitive enough to detect when a scooter strays from a road or dedicated cycle path onto a pavement, (which is the main problem)? We have 'zones' too, but they are not that sensitive.

Living Streets research showed that only 10% of E scooter use involved reduced car use, but the example I give above involving my neighbour shows that E scooter use can actually increase car use.
The majority of E scooter users are relatively young people. We have an obesity crisis in the UK and E scooter use will do nothing to help this.

Because the situation has been allowed to get out of control, due mostly to reduced police numbers, I am sure that eventually the government will do the easiest thing and call all E scooters legal; instead of the right thing, which is a blanket ban on their use, or a VERY strict hire scheme.
If they do the easiest thing, the accidents will mount up.....

[Maurice_Minor]

One must face the fact that anyone on 2 wheels is now above the law. These groups contribute nothing & are responsible for nothing. They are sainted as a "Vulnerable group".
"Phone the police?"
Good luck with that.

cop.JPG (170.65 KiB) Viewed 6023 times

[MorrisJohn]

Happened to see this relevant article on e scooters today,
https://news.sky.com/story/e-scooter-de ... s-12754673

[stuffedpike20]

Two things of interest there for me MorrisJohn. The second worst area for accidents outside London is Nottinghamshire.

Secondly, there are almost as many accidents involving illegal scooters as there are involving trial scooters.

Thanks for putting that up.

[Blaketon]

Maybe many cops are fed up with all the PC claptrap. A few months ago I was rocketing around a bend (Not in the Moggie) near the foot of Box Hill & pulled up for speeding by a cop with a speed gun. He was quite young & looked exactly like Matt Hancock. Anyways he started asking me all these stupid questions like, 'What sex would you identify with?" I answered, "Isn't it obvious?". "Answer the question please sir!" he dryly replied. Anyway this went on for 10 minutes checking the car all round, my details etc etc.
Anyway, I was good humoured about it all, especially since I already had points on my licence. He then asked for an explanation for my speed, "I then blurted out, "Actually, officer, today I have been identifying as a giraffe & my right hoof got stuck between the accelerator & the brake pedal, thus propelling me to the speed that caused you camera to sound an alarm!" He just looked at me & then continued looking around the car. I thought "what have I done?"
He stood there prodding at his hand held computer thing then said, "Im sorry sir, I seem to have pressed a button that has caused your offence to be deleted!"
I was gobsmacked as I know about computers & they will always ask "Are you sure" before they delete anything. Anyway that was that. To this day I think he secretly thought my giraffe joke was funny & let me off.

If you were identifying as a giraffe, it would be no less unachievable than some of the more common delusions. As I often say, if I jumped off the roof, claiming to be a bird and survived the fall, I imagine that besides treatment of my physical injuries, I might expect to see a psychiatrist.

This whole issue of scooter riders, cyclists, dog walkers, BMW drivers or whoever anyone cares to complain about, has more to do with the species, than the activity. If one of the aforementioned does something stupid, it's because they are human beings!! Sometimes, the most vulnerable are so because they are the most stupid, like the two young women I saw, walking on the left hand side of the road (Same direction as the traffic), side by side, when there was a perfectly good pavement on the other side. I don't recall them being glued to (So called) smart phones but a Postman I know had another young woman walk into the side of his van (He was stopped at a T junction) and fall over the bonnet, as she was glued to a phone .

As to the Police, I recall when some drug addicts tried to hit me off my bike, with their car door (They didn't catch me with it, as the wind pressure prevented this). As luck would have it, a few miles up the road, the Police had stopped them, for something else and found drugs in the car. Despite my clean record, it was their word against mine but I reminded the Police, that if I came across the culprits (Who I had not seen before) any time soon, it would still be my word against theirs!! I am aware that cases have to be watertight for the CPS to take them on.

Oddly enough, a month or so back, whilst riding my bike, I had an altercation with a van driver, who was driving without due care and attention. As God is my judge, I only suggested he "Wake up" (No more) and that was enough to set him going. He took a swing at me, which I deflected, before knocking him out. He came round in about half a minute and then had the temerity to call the Police (My phone will not work at the location of the incident). He put on quite a performance, claiming to be in fear of his life (Had I wanted to kill him, I could have done so when he was on the floor). He then drove off, still on the phone and kept stopping, claiming I was following him (I was going the same way that's all)...yet he was in fear of his life Anyway, once he was just out of sight, I made a slight diversion but as I neared my destination, a Police car was racing in the opposite direction (It seems if you belt someone, they act fast), so I put 2+2 together and having nothing to hide, flagged them down. I told them exactly what had happened. Then, the van driver, who had told me I was going to go to jail, arrived. After he spoke with one the Policemen, he decided it was "Not in his best interests" to go to court. The Police then asked me if I wanted to press charges. I suggested that having had his bell rung would hopefully teach the van driver to curb his temper.

[les]

I doubt many people who knock someone out, get away with it. Especially if the police know and it’s not denied.

[stuffedpike20]

"Sometimes the most vulnerable are so because they are the most stupid," Really Blaketon?

This thread has been about sensible pedestrians, just going about their lives, who have to encounter offence committing wrong -doers.

The 'activity' of cycling/scooting on the pavement has been allowed to get out of hand, and is set to get much worse.

[Blaketon]

I doubt many people who knock someone out, get away with it. Especially if the police know and it’s not denied.

Self defense is not a crime and if you are in fear, as I was, of an illegal and violent assault, on my person, your are entitled to act. Having struck the would be assailant, that's where it ended. Had I continued to inflict battery, it would have become another matter entirely. A Policeman once told me that it is better to be be able to enter a plea, of self defense, than be laid out on a mortuary slab.

I am now in the process of obtaining a small camera, so that if a similar (Motoring) occurrence happens again, I can simply send the evidence to "Go Safe" and let the Police deal with it. I try to pick my times and pick my routes, to avoid this kind of thing and since this incident and that of the drug addicts and the car door, are a good 12 or 13 years apart, apparently quite successfully.

[Blaketon]

"Sometimes the most vulnerable are so because they are the most stupid," Really Blaketon?

This thread has been about sensible pedestrians, just going about their lives, who have to encounter offence committing wrong -doers.

The 'activity' of cycling/scooting on the pavement has been allowed to get out of hand, and is set to get much worse.

Since you have chosen to quote only part of my remark, I will add the rest like the two young women I saw, walking on the left hand side of the road (Same direction as the traffic), side by side, when there was a perfectly good pavement on the other side.

Lots of things have got out of hand because laws are not enforced. These new Highway Code rules will be of questionable benefit unless backed up by action (From what I can gather, it needs to be backed up by video footage). How long has driving, whilst using a hand held mobile phone, been an offense? You still see people doing it. In my neck of the woods, parking on double yellow lines is rampant and in many cases, downright dangerous. I have heard that people are now being fined for parking the wrong way at night or without lights, as if it's a new thing. There have been such laws for decades but after many people had cars and so many of them broke said rules, a blind eye was turned.

I have been a cyclist for decades and I don't think that bikes and pedestrians mix, no more than scooters or E bikes. I will not cycle on a pavement or cycle the wrong way up a one way street (Even though the latter is no longer an offense). Part of my route home, from work, takes me along a short section of one way street but I turn off my front light and push the bike up the pavement, as doubt many motorists would expect to find a cyclist riding towards them, legally or not. The majority of so called cyclepaths are inadequate in many ways (They seem to be based on the assumption that bikes travel at little more than walking pace, rather like the rules on one way streets). Since many double up as footpaths, logic would suggest that a section be set aside for pedestrians but would people take any notice of this?

[stuffedpike20]

Thank you for not cycling on the pavement.

[geoberni]

I will not cycle on a pavement or cycle the wrong way up a one way street (Even though the latter is no longer an offense).

Since when? I think you're talking the exception rather than the rule....
It's still an offence unless the street has been designated as One Way 'Except Cycles'.
Highway Code

Rule 143

One-way streets. Traffic MUST travel in the direction indicated by signs. Buses and/or cycles may have a contraflow lane. Choose the correct lane for your exit as soon as you can. Do not change lanes suddenly. Unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise, you should use
the left-hand lane when going left
the right-hand lane when going right
the most appropriate lane when going straight ahead. Remember – traffic could be passing on both sides.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & RTRA sects 5 & 8

Even this 'Ambulance Chaser' website acknowledges that

"Cyclists are only allowed to travel the wrong up a one-way street where the road is two-way for bicycle riders but one way for motorists. .....
If the street is not designated two-way for cyclists, then it is illegal to ride the wrong way.

https://www.cyclinginjurylegal.co.uk/ca ... way-street

[stuffedpike20]

Laws, rules and regulations are only useful if they can be upheld.
Theresa May got rid of 20,000 experienced police officers, for reasons best known to herself; and we are only just seeing the numbers rising again, but nowhere near enough.
There seems to be less respect between individuals than before the pandemic, and there was not enough respect before that.

The demographic of MMOC members is, I would guess, quite aged. Mobility and eyesight problems come with age. I raised the problem of pavement cyclists and scooterists mainly because I do not want to live in a Mad Max world in my old age. The roads are bad enough, we do not need continued chaos on the pavements too.

I phoned 101 a couple of days ago to report an illegal e scooter. When I eventually got to speak to a human, she asked me how I knew the scooter was illegal. I told her it was not a bright yellow trial scooter, and we carried on. I told her that it was on the road, and going much faster than the 30mph speed limit. She asked me for my details and then told me to report incidents AS THEY ARE HAPPENING in the future. It took me ages to get through on 101 and talk to a human, by which time the scooterist would be miles away. I told her that the scooter probably went up the same road at 8am every working day; but she was not interested. If the police genuinely want our help, they could be a bit more helpful themselves. Each time I phone I get a different attitude, and no continuity. No wonder people do not bother.

In other news....it would seem that in Paris there are strong calls for suspending the e scooter hire trials, because there have been so many accidents.

[TDV102]

Every time plod sees an illegal scooter they should stop and confiscate. And how come they allow 350w trial scooters when the limit of assistance for bicycles is 250w? A bicycle is far more controllable and for old farts like me who live in rural locations with hills at least 500w would be more use. IMHO escooters are gratuitously dangerous by design and the sale of them in the UK banned.

[stuffedpike20]

I have read that most private e scooters are made by toy manufacturers in China.

If only it was as simple as confiscating them. Round here, anyone caught on an illegal e scooter (hardly any are caught) is firstly given a warning. Only repeat offenders are penalised.

When mobile phones first came to the UK, it was not illegal to use one whilst driving. After accidents and fatalities involving their use became clear, their use was banned. It became much harder to ban them because people had been allowed to use them in the first place.
Although private e scooter use is illegal on public roads and pavements; a million people are pretty much being allowed to use them in the UK.
In the future, if a ban is imposed, it will be hard to impose because of this.

My advice to pedestrians encountering cycles or e scooters coming at them, or behind them on the pavement is NEVER MOVE.
Do not move aside to allow them to continue committing their public order offence. You are 100% in the right, and they are 100% in the wrong. Let them sort themselves out.
Just keep walking straight, or stand still. You do not have to say anything. You do not have to look at them. If you are subjected to abuse, phone the police on 101. Simples.