Morris Minor Owners Club

Posted: **Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:42 pm**

I had a lot of success on my old Chevette using a Sparkrite ignition amplifier which used the existing points as a trigger. It removes the high current loading across the points thus removing spark erosion plus a much fatter and more consistent spark. As you can still use a switch on the amplifier to switch back to the stock system you can do a direct comparison and on the Chevette the Sparkrite was clearly better.

Now, the Accuspark simply replaces the points with some kind of trigger... So my question is.. Does the accuspark have a mechanical switch (which would be 'viewed' by a Sparkrite as a set of points), or is there a transistor switch in their which might not be read by the Sparkrite?
has anyone combined these two systems?

I'd love to know if the trigger system works with the Sparkrite so if anyone has an info I'd really appreciate hearing it!

I have a great service manual which seems to be Australian. As I have to drive the Traveller to a place with a roof to service it, the engine will be hot and fortunately my 'new best book' states 11 thou hot, 12 thou cold all round, emphasising a 1 thou 'growth' from cold to hot. So, if I go with 12/15 it'll be 11/14 hot...Handy to know!

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:51 am**

I'd imagine Sparkrite either use an optical sensor in the distributor, or a magnetic one, which then triggers the amplifier. Both will depend on movement, so static timing can be a bit hit & miss

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:08 pm**

ndevans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:51 am I'd imagine Sparkrite either use an optical sensor in the distributor, or a magnetic one, which then triggers the amplifier. Both will depend on movement, so static timing can be a bit hit & miss

Sparkrite uses the original points to trigger their Unit, which then provided the switching to make the Coil function, always has done since the 1970s when I had one on my Escort.
Their USP is that should their unit ever fail, there's a switch on the casing that simply restores the Points to their regular function of triggering the Coil directly.

Guildbass wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:42 pm I'd love to know if the trigger system works with the Sparkrite so if anyone has an info I'd really appreciate hearing it!

I suggest you try asking Accuspark how their system works; as you say, it has a 'Trigger Ring' to make it operate, which is magnetic.
But exactly how the module senses the magnetic field passing, I've no idea.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:34 pm**

Thinking about it, the Accuspark and similar must allow current to flow through the module to allow the primary ignition coil windings to saturate then when the magnets trigger the module, interrupts the current flow fast enough to create the back EMF 'spark voltage' in the secondary....which has to be exactly what the points do anyway.

So I'll get a Sparkrite, time the car properly and perhaps try the pointless trigger once everything else is done.
Thanks for your input.
always appreciated.

Jon

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:46 pm**

How magnetic points work and why you can't set-up static timing with them.

The object is to provide the correct 'pulse' to give the best 'spark'. So, a static Hall effect sensor will be used along with rotating magnets. The problem here is that the output of the Hall effect sensor will not give the the required pulse (without having a custom part!). To obtain the correct length pulse the output of the sensor will trigger a circuit that is designed to give the correct pulse. This is why it's almost impossible to set-up static timing with these systems as the generated pulse is too short to view without specialised equipment e.g. the output is not on permanently, like standard points, but is a short pulse that can't be seen - even using a LED!

It's SO easy to design a circuit that could be used with a standard bulb for doing static timing - I'm disappointed that most don't - implying, of course, that some units do have this facility.

Dave H.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:19 pm**

...And you can't use blue Rizla papers either!

Fortunately I still have a timing light!

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:48 pm**

geoberni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:08 pm
ndevans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:51 am I'd imagine Sparkrite either use an optical sensor in the distributor, or a magnetic one, which then triggers the amplifier. Both will depend on movement, so static timing can be a bit hit & miss
Sparkrite uses the original points to trigger their Unit, which then provided the switching to make the Coil function, always has done since the 1970s when I had one on my Escort.
Their USP is that should their unit ever fail, there's a switch on the casing that simply restores the Points to their regular function of triggering the Coil directly.

Guildbass wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:42 pm I'd love to know if the trigger system works with the Sparkrite so if anyone has an info I'd really appreciate hearing it!
I suggest you try asking Accuspark how their system works; as you say, it has a 'Trigger Ring' to make it operate, which is magnetic.
But exactly how the module senses the magnetic field passing, I've no idea.

Is it not a Hall sensor?!

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:53 am**

liammonty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:48 pm
geoberni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:08 pm
ndevans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:51 am I'd imagine Sparkrite either use an optical sensor in the distributor, or a magnetic one, which then triggers the amplifier. Both will depend on movement, so static timing can be a bit hit & miss
Sparkrite uses the original points to trigger their Unit, which then provided the switching to make the Coil function, always has done since the 1970s when I had one on my Escort.
Their USP is that should their unit ever fail, there's a switch on the casing that simply restores the Points to their regular function of triggering the Coil directly.

Guildbass wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:42 pm I'd love to know if the trigger system works with the Sparkrite so if anyone has an info I'd really appreciate hearing it!
I suggest you try asking Accuspark how their system works; as you say, it has a 'Trigger Ring' to make it operate, which is magnetic.
But exactly how the module senses the magnetic field passing, I've no idea.
Is it not a Hall sensor?!

As far as I know it is yes. If you plug in an analogue voltmeter you can detect a voltage spike with the meter needle. It’s too quick to get any meaningful idea of where the trigger point is with a digital meter. Basically the Accuspark unit is permanently powered with the ignition on. It detects the position of the distributor rotor via a Hall effect sensor and grounds the coil at the right time (causing the coil field to collapse and produce a spark at the spark plug). In effect it is an electronic switch instead of the points

I can’t actually understand what possible advantage there would be by trying to combine Accuspark and Sparkrite

Stephen

Posted: **Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:51 am**

svenedin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:53 am
liammonty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:48 pm
geoberni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:08 pm
Sparkrite uses the original points to trigger their Unit, which then provided the switching to make the Coil function, always has done since the 1970s when I had one on my Escort.
Their USP is that should their unit ever fail, there's a switch on the casing that simply restores the Points to their regular function of triggering the Coil directly.

I suggest you try asking Accuspark how their system works; as you say, it has a 'Trigger Ring' to make it operate, which is magnetic.
But exactly how the module senses the magnetic field passing, I've no idea.
Is it not a Hall sensor?!
As far as I know it is yes. If you plug in an analogue voltmeter you can detect a voltage spike with the meter needle. It’s too quick to get any meaningful idea of where the trigger point is with a digital meter. Basically the Accuspark unit is permanently powered with the ignition on. It detects the position of the distributor rotor via a Hall effect sensor and grounds the coil at the right time (causing the coil field to collapse and produce a spark at the spark plug). In effect it is an electronic switch instead of the points

I can’t actually understand what possible advantage there would be by trying to combine Accuspark and Sparkrite

Stephen

Combining the two removes the potential for the mechanical points to move setting or fail over time.
Probably overkill based on my own experience of using the Sparkrite system on my Chevette, which was very effective, but useful to know it would work if it does, as points can mechanically fail...

Posted: **Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:18 pm**

Guildbass wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:51 am
svenedin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:53 am
liammonty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:48 pm

Is it not a Hall sensor?!
As far as I know it is yes. If you plug in an analogue voltmeter you can detect a voltage spike with the meter needle. It’s too quick to get any meaningful idea of where the trigger point is with a digital meter. Basically the Accuspark unit is permanently powered with the ignition on. It detects the position of the distributor rotor via a Hall effect sensor and grounds the coil at the right time (causing the coil field to collapse and produce a spark at the spark plug). In effect it is an electronic switch instead of the points

I can’t actually understand what possible advantage there would be by trying to combine Accuspark and Sparkrite

Stephen
Combining the two removes the potential for the mechanical points to move setting or fail over time.
Probably overkill based on my own experience of using the Sparkrite system on my Chevette, which was very effective, but useful to know it would work if it does, as points can mechanically fail...

Yes true, there is no wear to worry about. The heel of the points wears over time and that affects the timing. However, the Accuspark unit can fail too and then you have no ignition at all.

Posted: **Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:53 pm**

I can’t actually understand what possible advantage there would be by trying to combine Accuspark and Sparkrite

Stephen
[/quote]

Combining the two removes the potential for the mechanical points to move setting or fail over time.
Probably overkill based on my own experience of using the Sparkrite system on my Chevette, which was very effective, but useful to know it would work if it does, as points can mechanically fail...
[/quote]

Yes true, there is no wear to worry about. The heel of the points wears over time and that affects the timing. However, the Accuspark unit can fail too and then you have no ignition at all.
[/quote]

I suppose they can. i have no experience of them, has anyone had a failure?

Posted: **Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:47 pm**

Guildbass wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:53 pm I can’t actually understand what possible advantage there would be by trying to combine Accuspark and Sparkrite

Stephen

Combining the two removes the potential for the mechanical points to move setting or fail over time.
Probably overkill based on my own experience of using the Sparkrite system on my Chevette, which was very effective, but useful to know it would work if it does, as points can mechanically fail...
[/quote]

Yes true, there is no wear to worry about. The heel of the points wears over time and that affects the timing. However, the Accuspark unit can fail too and then you have no ignition at all.
[/quote]

I suppose they can. i have no experience of them, has anyone had a failure?
[/quote]

Mine is a Powerspark, and it has failed once, but I think that was probably because I inadvertantly wired it in wrong

Posted: **Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:11 pm**

Guildbass wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:53 pm I suppose they can. i have no experience of them, has anyone had a failure?

Yep.

Well, not me, but someone I know. Thing died in a total loss of spark kind of way.

A spare I had got them going. It was spare because I'd given up using the thing. They seem to advance the spark a bit when cranking (presumably related to voltage drop), so I had to either have a slightly later spark than I wanted and easy starting, or the spark where I wanted and a near stall "woomph" when cranking. Spoke to someone else who'd had the same issue.

I'm not saying they're necessarily awful, but they might not be perfect. But at least, if you don't fork out for the Accu/ Power label, they're cheap (via Aliexpress) enough to carry a spare.

Posted: **Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:59 am**

I don't think this old chestnut will ever be resolved.
Electronic ignition - fit and forget..........until it fails (and they all will eventually) and you are stranded in the middle of BFN.
Standard points - check and maintain as per the manual. If they do fail, you have a good chance of coaxing them back to life with some fine abrasive paper and a feeler gauge, at least to get you home.
In either case, using quality components will minimise risk of breakdown, and carrying a spare is an obvious insurance tactic.

Posted: **Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:47 pm**

myoldjalopy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:59 am I don't think this old chestnut will ever be resolved.
Electronic ignition - fit and forget..........until it fails (and they all will eventually) and you are stranded in the middle of BFN.
Standard points - check and maintain as per the manual. If they do fail, you have a good chance of coaxing them back to life with some fine abrasive paper and a feeler gauge, at least to get you home.
In either case, using quality components will minimise risk of breakdown, and carrying a spare is an obvious insurance tactic.

Which is why I like the accuspark amplifier. Still uses the points but removes the reason why they wear out, and can be switched back to pure points in the event the electronics fail, which I've never heard of, but its nice to know you can!

Posted: **Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:28 pm**

myoldjalopy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:59 am I don't think this old chestnut will ever be resolved.
Electronic ignition - fit and forget..........until it fails (and they all will eventually) and you are stranded in the middle of BFN.
Standard points - check and maintain as per the manual. If they do fail, you have a good chance of coaxing them back to life with some fine abrasive paper and a feeler gauge, at least to get you home.
In either case, using quality components will minimise risk of breakdown, and carrying a spare is an obvious insurance tactic.

Which is why I like the Sparkrite SX2000. Still uses the points but removes the reason why they wear out, and can be switched back to pure points in the event the electronics fail,which I've never heard of, but its nice to know you can!

John ;-)

Posted: **Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:31 pm**

Sleeper wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:28 pm
myoldjalopy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:59 am I don't think this old chestnut will ever be resolved.
Electronic ignition - fit and forget..........until it fails (and they all will eventually) and you are stranded in the middle of BFN.
Standard points - check and maintain as per the manual. If they do fail, you have a good chance of coaxing them back to life with some fine abrasive paper and a feeler gauge, at least to get you home.
In either case, using quality components will minimise risk of breakdown, and carrying a spare is an obvious insurance tactic.

Which is why I like the Sparkrite SX2000. Still uses the points but removes the reason why they wear out, and can be switched back to pure points in the event the electronics fail,which I've never heard of, but its nice to know you can! And a nice neon to help set the static timing.

John ;-)

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:03 am**

P.S.

The Sparkrite SX4000 is rubbish.

John ;-)

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:48 pm**

Sleeper wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:03 am P.S.

The Sparkrite SX4000 is rubbish.

John ;-)

Is it?
Pray tell.... -)

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2023 4:18 pm**

How often do the original points fail ? ————very rarely, I submit. When is a Minor not a Minor ?

Morris Minor Owners Club

Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

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Re: Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

Re: Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

Re: Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

Re: Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.

Re: Combining Accuspark and Sparkrite.