Electronic ignition

[TOMO28B]

Hi all,can anyone recommend an electronic ignition conversion kit for my moggy. It's a 1968 1098cc. There are numerous kits available on EBay,but it's a minefield. I think my car has the Lucas 25D4 dizzy fitted as the car is bog standard, even dynamo,due to be changed to alternator. Any help folks would be great.

[svenedin]

This is quite a big subject.

Broadly speaking, there are 3 types. Firstly, the type that triggers the ignition using a changing magnetic field (Hall effect). These units fit inside the distributor and there is no other box or unit involved. The better quality ones are Pertronix Ignitor (Aldon Ignitor is the same thing) and Lumenition Magnetronic. They are available in positive and negative earth version and are not interchangeable.

Then there is the type that has an optical detector installed in the distributor and a separate unit (ignition amplifier) outside the distributor. The only common one now is Lumenition Optronic. The system can be installed in positive or negative earth cars by altering the way it is wired.

Lastly, there is a completely different distributor (not a Lucas copy) with an electronic ignition unit already installed. 123igntion sell these and they are quite sophisticated. They can be plugged into a computer to set custom advance curves and such like. I would think this is overkill for a road going Morris Minor unless used in competition.

The Optronic system is much more expensive but has stood the test of time as it was launched in the early 1970's. Many people consider it practically bombproof and very reliable.

Of the Hall effect type there are cheaper units available from Powerspark and Accuspark.

You really have to make your own choice. What I would say is, most failures are due to incorrect installation. If you wire the units up reverse polarity for instance you can fry the unit almost immediately. The complete distributors that are made by Powerspark and Accuspark are of poor quality in my opinion and nothing like the quality of the original Lucas parts.

It is a subject that polarises opinion. There are those that say there is no advantage over a standard points (Kettering) ignition system in good condition and properly adjusted. I think that is correct BUT such a system has to kept in good condition and that means adjustments and maintenance. Also, the quality of standard ignition parts has declined and care has to be taken to get the best parts (condensers, contact breakers etc).

Fitting electronic ignition is not quite "fit and forget". There is nothing to adjust but the distributor still needs to be lubricated as per schedule and the rotor, distributor cap etc inspected periodically. It is not good practice to fit electronic ignition to a distributor that is worn out. You will not get much if any improvement.

Most electronic ignition systems will fail prematurely if used with old fashioned copper core high tension spark leads (a minimum resistance is required). Check the instructions. Lumenition Optronic does run with copper core leads.

Finally, should an electronic ignition system fail, there is nothing you can do at the roadside unless you are carrying an expensive spare. On the original ignition system you would very likely be able to continue your journey after replacing the points or condenser at a cost of pennies.......

Disclaimer: I do have electronic ignition (Lumenition Optronic). I don't have an alternator and never will. I have a dynamo and positive earth.

Stephen

[TOMO28B]

Thanks Stephen for your guidance, it has certainly got me thinking though. The car runs good anyway,I was just considering future proofing it.I am about to give it a full service etc so it should be ok for a while. Thanks again.

[svenedin]

Thanks Stephen for your guidance, it has certainly got me thinking though. The car runs good anyway,I was just considering future proofing it.I am about to give it a full service etc so it should be ok for a while. Thanks again.

You're welcome. When I was a student I was very lax on maintenance of my Minor and it still ran well despite my neglect! It never broke down. I am much more fussy now.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

"
Finally, should an electronic ignition system fail, there is nothing you can do at the roadside unless you are carrying an expensive spare. On the original ignition system you would very likely be able to continue your journey after replacing the points or condenser at a cost of pennies......."

Stephen, I have petronix, if it fails I can just put points and condenser back, which I carry in toolbox?. So why say there is nothing you can do.

[svenedin]

"
Finally, should an electronic ignition system fail, there is nothing you can do at the roadside unless you are carrying an expensive spare. On the original ignition system you would very likely be able to continue your journey after replacing the points or condenser at a cost of pennies......."

Stephen, I have petronix, if it fails I can just put points and condenser back, which I carry in toolbox?. So why say there is nothing you can do.

True you can do that but to do it you'd need to take the trigger ring off the distributor cam, remove the Pertronix unit, fit your points and condenser, refit the low tension connector and put the ignition wires back as they are on the standard points system. Not difficult I suppose.

What I actually meant was you cannot fix a caput electronic ignition module by the roadside.

When I take my car to Holland on MOT 2024 I will carry the parts to convert back to Kettering in case of failure of the Optronic. The parts weight next to nothing and take up almost no space.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Very easy, a bit like the reverse of fitting it
Surprised you would have a non original bit of electrical system

[svenedin]

Very easy, a bit like the reverse of fitting it
Surprised you would have a non original bit of electrical system

Yes but I use my car year round and it is not always me using the car. I found it tended to misbehave in the Winter cold and damp. It will always start but just likes to make a bit of a protest when running on points. I have two distributors, one fitted with points so I can swap quickly. I also did away with points on the fuel pump for the same reason but again, I have a spare points SU fuel pump. I don't carry the points distributor or pump around in the car though.

Stephen

[Myrtles Man]

Hi Tom, when it comes to this fairly contentious subject you could do a lot worse than check out the following website and perhaps phone him for a bit of guidance too:-

https://www.distributordoctor.com/

Good luck with whatever solution you finally decide on.

[Bill_qaz]

I was not trying to be contentious, with my comments on the subject, I just thought if it breaks you can't fix it comment was misleading.
The petronix on my minor has been trouble free so far.but can't comment on other systems
Good luck with whichever system you choose Tom

[myoldjalopy]

Thanks Stephen for your guidance, it has certainly got me thinking though. The car runs good anyway,I was just considering future proofing it.I am about to give it a full service etc so it should be ok for a while. Thanks again.

The car is 56 years old and still 'runs good'. So it was 'future proofed' when it was built with the points system all those years ago! If you use good quality components (from the Dizzy Doc) and carry out routine servicing/maintenance, it will be 'future proofed'

[oliver90owner]

The car is 56 years old and still 'runs good'. So it was 'future proofed' when it was built with the points system all those years ago! If you use good quality components (from the Dizzy Doc) and carry out routine servicing/maintenance, it will be 'future proofed'

My capacitive discharge electronic system, built from discrete components, back in the1970s worked fine. The only wearing part was the points heel rubbing on the distributor cam (virtually zilch, with decent quality points and proper lubrication).

I ran it from about ‘73 until ‘78 when I removed it (when I changed my car). I was clocking up in excess of 20k miles per year back then. It had the option of changing back to the Kettering system by simple switching on the enclosure.

There are no new vehicles relying on the Kettering system made these days. Every single one utilises an electronic system of some sort. They are reliable. Cheap conversions, for these old classic/vintage cars, may not be as reliable as the modern electronic OEM supplied items. ‘You pays your money and takes your choice’ is the order of the day.

[svenedin]

I was not trying to be contentious, with my comments on the subject, I just thought if it breaks you can't fix it comment was misleading.
The petronix on my minor has been trouble free so far.but can't comment on other systems
Good luck with whichever system you choose Tom

Yes I ran a Pertronix Ignitor and it seemed fine. The only thing I noticed was that the label on the unit in the distributor discoloured suggesting it gets rather hot. I presume it is made to tolerate this as it did not misbehave.

[TOMO28B]

Thanks for the advice everyone, as I said I will ponder over the idea of electronic ignition,but I'm getting swayed towards just leaving it alone, classic case of if it ain't broken,don't fix.

[myoldjalopy]

Quite so. And there are previous threads on here by people who decided to 'fix it', even though it was not broken - and were then beset by problems!

[Bill_qaz]

Thanks for the advice everyone, as I said I will ponder over the idea of electronic ignition,but I'm getting swayed towards just leaving it alone, classic case of if it ain't broken,don't fix.

Mine has only got it because it was fitted when I bought the car, if it ever fails I would put points back, easy and cheap to fix.
Had plenty of cars back in day that were on points with no real problems.

[les]

When’s a Morris Minor not a Morris Minor ?

[Bill_qaz]

When’s a Morris Minor not a Morris Minor ?

When it's an Austin