Welding - getting started

Post by **chrisd87** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:54 pm

Following a fairly bad MOT failure, I think it might be time to learn how to weld. I've got a few questions:

What equipment, apart from the welder itself, do I need?

What sort practice should I try and how difficult is it to get the hang of?

What are people's opinions of this welder (by PM if necessary)? I think practical classics did a test and said it was reasonable, but has anyone got experience of using one or something similar? I was just a bit concerned that it only seems to have 2 power settings.

Any and all advice welcome!

Post by **BigMark** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi Chris
I am a member of a welding forum here
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php
They have a great video based how to section along with a buyers guide etc.
As for the welder you mentioned I would strongly advise against gasless as it is no where near as neat or as controlled as gased mig.
I would look at at least 120amp but 150amp covers all that you are lightly to do.
I have just got the Clarke 160TE and it is a great machine, also get yourself an auto dim helmet as it makes things about 200% easier!
Oh if you have a lot of welding to do ditch the small gas bottles and get yourself sorted with a BOC account and a large Argolight bottle, works out a LOT cheaper!

Post by **chickenjohn** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:04 pm

Great idea Chris! Learning to weld means you are in control of the destiny of your cars survival.

You will need safety gear- a good welding helmet- preferably a reactive one, leather welding gloves and a decent fire retartand overall- Clarke sell these too- I found them much better for keeping the sparks away. To get rid of the rust- you will need a grinder and cutting disks as well as wire brushes. You will also nee welding clamps.

I would get lots of 1mm steel and start practicing joining small pieces together. Get a knowledgable friend to give you a welding lesson, there are bound to be some good welders in your local club!

Its ok to do lap welds at first as these are the easiest to learn and are well up to MOT standard. Then as ytou get more confident you can move up to butt welds.

Mig welding is not that hard to master if given good instruction and your gear is properly set up. Its just practise, confidence and not being scared of it.

Clarke welders are good- although I would personally spend more and get a more poweful welder such as a 150 or 160 turbo- should give a more stable arc. Never used a "gassless" welder so i can only personally reccommend using a gas one.

Get the gear, get some steel and have a go!

BTW, where on your car is the MOT fail- post some pics.

Post by **chrisd87** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:18 pm

Thanks for the advice.

The only things that attracted me to the gasless welders is that a) they're cheaper and my budget is very small, and b) I'll be doing the work outside and so I don't want the gas shield to be blown away. What sort of power am I realistically going to need - is 85 amps insufficient?

Unfortunately the car in question (the '58 4-dr) is in Cambridge at the moment and I'm in Exeter until March, so I can't get any pictures right now. I'm having to go on what my mum, who took the car to the garage, tells me. When the garage opens on monday I'll give them a ring and find out exactly which bits are rotten. I'm just hoping it's not the crossmember or something that's tricky to repair.

Sarah is in for her MOT as well on monday - fingers crossed!

Post by **BigMark** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:48 pm

Hi Chris
Think of a welders power like a car power
a 1L will do......it will be ok on the motorway but wont be enjoying it.

85 amps will weld auto panels but it will be running a "basic" arc to do so.
I really cant recommend gas enough, it really is worth saving for a better quality of welder as even Lloyds coded welders cant weld well with cheap kit (I know this for experience having bought a cheap welder then thrown itin a corner and bought a good welder)
speak to weldeqip on the other forum, he will stear you in the right direction

Post by **Chris Morley** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:40 pm

As for the welder you mentioned I would strongly advise against gasless as it is no where near as neat or as controlled as gased mig.

I wouldn't condemn gasless so quickly - if you are trying to weld on a windy day and you don't have a garage it is a godsend. It's also a lot quicker to get going, however the welds do tend to be a bit more splattery. Also you'll need a wire brush to clean up the coating residue every couple of minutes.

The bigger the better I would say - mine's a Clarke 105 and I could still do with a bit more power sometimes. However the frantic MOT welds I've done with it have stood the test of time (the first being in November 1999).

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:45 pm

Stay with Clarke welders. Can't name names, but I've owned others, and found them to be cheaply made and horribly prone to dreadful problems with the wire feed mechanism. My Clarke's been fine for years of fairly heavy use.

Post by **BigMark** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:17 pm

Would that wire feed issue be from a SIP by any chance ginger

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:42 pm

I couldn't possibly say... but PMs are useful, aren't they

Post by **les** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:12 pm

Speak as you find, but I have not had trouble with my Sip, admittedly it's quite sturdy.

Post by **JimK** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:34 pm

My plan is to get a short introductory college course, welding with gas, indoors. That way I can learn about power and wire speed settings, then go to gasless mig outdoors at home. It's very rarely still where we live, and frequently quite windy.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:32 pm

if you are trying to weld on a windy day and you don't have a garage it is a godsend.

I have no problem using a gas MIG on a windy day, except that gas is not cheap (turn it up more to compensate for the wind). I managed the sills, A-posts, B-posts, C-posts, inner wings, chassis leg boot floor & rear floor replacement in 6 weeks so it's not exactly that bad out doors - although I had to put a Tarp up when it was raining.
I now have a cheap nasty Gazebo, so if I have a few months work to do outside it will be rain, snow and wind free (unless the Gazebo blows away).

My welder also had no end of wire feed problems, but has been fine since downgrading from 0.6 to 0.8mm wire
0.6 wire is supposed to give better results but just gave me a pain in the nether regions due to wire feed / welded-up-tip problems.

Ratbag · Post by **Ratbag** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:18 pm

http://www.millerwelds.com/education/library.html

Post by **poggy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:59 am

I need to do some welding to the floor box section (small patch) and also to the inner wheel arch, especially where the bumper stop is (or should I say was !). I have done some Arc welding in the past and Frost are offering a low amp welder which is meant to be very good for thin gauge metal (0.8mm) and can weld upto 4-5mm thick metal.

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp? ... p%20Welder

For the limited amount of welding I need to do, would this be suitable and has anybody used one before. It's also pretty cheap.

Thanks

Andy

Post by **alex_holden** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:27 am

I haven't used those low-current stick welders myself, but have heard other people complaining that they were difficult to do a decent job with and they wished they'd got a cheap MIG instead.

Post by **zippy500** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:17 am

I was welding some thick plate just using a hand held face mask, I didnt protect the exposed skin around my neck.

Few days later I got skin burn around the line of the mask ochhhh.

Still hurts now( that was 2 weeks ago!!) A welder says its the UV light given off

Morris Minor Owners Club

Welding - getting started

Welding - getting started

Good online welding resource/downloads