Starting Handle Points vs Electronic Ignition

[svenedin]

I quite enjoy using the starting handle to start my car. It is sort of my "party trick" and amuses people who have never seen a car started that way.

In my teens my car (the same car) had a dodgy dynamo and a faulty RB106 voltage regulator so it would often start (having been charged on a battery charger) first trip of the day on the electric starter and then run down the battery so that I would end up having to use the starting handle. Due to having to use the handle so often I got quite good at it and had the knack.

I changed to electronic ignition (PerTronix which uses the Hall effect) and no matter what I did I could not start the car with the starting handle. I wondered whether I had the lost the knack so I fitted a spare distributor fitted with standard points ignition.

Back on points I have no trouble using the starting handle to start the car. I assume that the distributor rotor has to be moving too fast to be detected by the sensor on the electronic ignition that senses a changing magnetic field (Hall effect). Presumably, an electronic ignition system that uses light detection such as Lumenition would not have this issue.

Are there any other owners who are are daft as me and like using their starting handles?

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

It is, as you say, a good 'party trick' which entertains onlookers but, more importantly, the handle will get the car going when the battery is too flat to turn the engine over. Has saved me from being stranded on more than one occasion and much easier than trying to bump start on level ground.

[Pete Bags]

I have electronic ignition and have used the handle to start the car (always as a party piece as well!) and have never had a problem! I don't know which type of electronic ignition is fitted - perhaps different types can affect the handle starting process?

The most impressed are the youngsters!

[svenedin]

I have electronic ignition and have used the handle to start the car (always as a party piece as well!) and have never had a problem! I don't know which type of electronic ignition is fitted - perhaps different types can affect the handle starting process?

The most impressed are the youngsters!

Do you have optical trigger type (E.g Optronic) or magnetic sensor trigger electronic ignition)? I cannot hand crank start the magnetic type. I have not tried optical

[les]

I thought you liked originality. Stick to points !!!

[Moggie May]

I’m with you Les. Never had a problem with the old points system at all with the Moggy.

I also have got a MGB and the only time either of them let me down was when the MG was fitted with an electronic ignition system which failed after 2 years!.
Needless to say basic is better for me.

[svenedin]

I thought you liked originality. Stick to points !!!

I do like originality but when I had a distributor rebuilt I thought I would try electronic ignition. The car certainly behaves very nicely with it. It is more precise, the idle is extremely even. Starting takes marginally longer with the electric starter with electronic ignition than points on a stone cold engine (no difference when warm which is almost instantaneous anyway). I use a PerTronix coil and Martin at Distributor Doctor told me to increase the spark plug gap to 35 thou whether on points or electronic. In my opinion (with a sample size of 1, my car) the PerTronix coil is a much better upgrade than electronic ignition. The engine runs miles better with a high quality coil. This is a dry coil, dynamo mounted, 3 Ohm, no ballast resistor. It has a larger diameter than a standard coil and so needs a new coil clamp if fitting one. I had a lot of trouble with rubbish coils and rubbish condensers. Also incidentally rubbish starter solenoids. One of which jammed on with the starter motor running continuously even with the key taken out that could have caught the car on fire if I hadn’t quickly disconnected the battery!

I think with a rebuilt distributor and now that decent condensers are available again there is no compelling reason to fit electronic ignition. Fitting electronic ignition only eliminates the points and condenser. The rotor still needs checking and the distributor lubricated. Checking the points gap is so quick that it is hardly a chore especially if you have the handy Lucas tool for this. A spare condenser and points in the tool bag in the boot weighs next to nothing and can be fitted in minutes.

Also setting up basic static timing is so easy with points.

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[oliver90owner]

The electronic ignition system I made up (from an electronics magazine plan) was easily switched from Kettering to electronic, by a simple switch (or two). It simply retained the points as a low voltage, low current switch to trigger the capacitor discharge.

At rpms of most A series engines, points bounce would unlikely be a problem - so would, I suspect, be a simple solution these days what with improvements to the electronics for raising DC voltage and triggering electronics, along with options for other sensors (than the vacuum and speed timing curves available back then.

That system was a good improvement over the Kettering system 50 years ago. 100% reliable, so no breakdowns, as I recall. Just a bit under-powered for the rpms we were subjecting our engines to, in those days!

[svenedin]

The electronic ignition system I made up (from an electronics magazine plan) was easily switched from Kettering to electronic, by a simple switch (or two). It simply retained the points as a low voltage, low current switch to trigger the capacitor discharge.

At rpms of most A series engines, points bounce would unlikely be a problem - so would, I suspect, be a simple solution these days what with improvements to the electronics for raising DC voltage and triggering electronics, along with options for other sensors (than the vacuum and speed timing curves available back then.

That system was a good improvement over the Kettering system 50 years ago. 100% reliable, so no breakdowns, as I recall. Just a bit under-powered for the rpms we were subjecting our engines to, in those days!

Interesting. I have often wondered how an A-series would run with a modern type ECU brain receiving information from various sensors. This is only a mind experiment for me as I am too much of a traditionalist. If I was rich I might have 2 Morris Minors. One ultra original and the other for tinkering with and modifying. However, if I had that kind of money I would probably buy something daft like the MG TF that was what I really wanted when I was 17. Instead I got Xavier and 34 years later I would not swap him for the MG but I wouldn't mind the MG as well......

Stephen

[les]

There’s a limit when modifying a Minor, or I suppose any other car for the road. If you exceed that limit, you lose the cars character, so might as well buy a new car! ———just corrected a spelling !

[svenedin]

There’s a limit when modifying a Minor, or I suppose any other car for the road. If you exceed that limit, you lose the cars character, so might as well by a new car!

I know what you mean Les. It's a fine line. I am still positive earth, no extra gauges, no charging sockets, no radio. As basic as it gets but I did fit hazard lights after several (fuel pump) breakdowns for safety's sake and also rear seatbelts to restrain the dog.

Stephen