rear tyre width

[maccax]

can anyone tell me how wide i can go on my rear wheels but i will be lowering the rear maybe 1.5" im getting them banded thanx

[bmcecosse]

Lowering the rear suspension is a mistake - the usual 5 leaf springs will have sagged more than enough already... .. it will just bump along on the stops...which will soon crack the 'chassis' . Why do you need wider rear tyres? Have you greatly increased the engine power?

[maccax]

same engine i want wide rear wheels because it looks cool and its my car if it makes the car fall apart so be it

[les]

Weird response, most folk try to avoid their car falling to bits!!

[simmitc]

You're right, it is your car, and you can do whatever you like - as long as it remains safe and legal; and is not a hazard to others. We don't judge, just try to offer the best advice possible - and sometimes you'll get different advice from different members. In this case, I agree with the above (a) you do not need to fit wider wheels and/or axle, (b) lowering the rear suspension is not a good idea and (c) it's a strange response that you don't care if your car falls apart.

[maccax]

ha just taking the mick but i just wanted an answer not the "why do you want to " im on my second mog the last one had wide steel wheels but not lowered and it was fine , im going to lower it and get the wheels banded just wanted a response from some body who may have done this ,if you havent then dont reply , simples!

[bmcecosse]

Don't worry maccax - you are on my 'list' now too...... And you think a Minor with (probably illegal) banded wheels will look 'cool'.......oh dear.......

[les]

First impressions not good but once he realizes that in the main replies are generally trying to be helpful he may chill out, after all he wants to be cool!

[IslipMinor]

I can't answer about banded rims, as our wide steel wheels have one-piece rims.

I can answer about lowering - both front and rear. Being a 1958 car, the rear springs are 7-leaf, so to lower it I took the bottom, smallest, leaf, turned it upside down and put on the top of the remaining 6 leaves. You also need to cut about 1" off the rear bump stops and reshape them to restore the 'progression'. The result lowers the rear by about 2" and was done nearly 43 years and 100,000 miles ago, with no damage to anything at any time since then.

Presumably you are planning to lower the front as well? Again the bump stops need reshaping, but so long as you do this and the inner wing is in good shape, we have had no problems at all.

Good dampers will be more essential as the suspension travel is less. Flush them through and refill with straight SAE40 oil, not any form of multigrade though.

[maccax]

thank you thats very helpful banded steels are 100% safe if there done right as i have some on my herald

[bmcecosse]

You forgot to mention the v important point on your car Richard - the stronger front torsion bars you have fitted, which allow the front to be lowered without constantly mashing the bump stops into the inner wings.

[chrisryder]

I've had 185 tyres on 5.5j rims on my Minor for years. It's best not to go much wider unless you want them poking out of the wings. And if they poke out of the wings you can't cut much off the bump stops as the tyres will hit the wings on full compression!

185s are a bit wide for 5.5j. You could go for 6j and still have 185s, and they would still fit.

If you're getting rims banded, will it be all on the outside, or the inside? Or a bit of both to maintain the same offset?

I have my doubts as to whether the standard 'centre' of a Minor wheel will stand up to the greater side-loadings of a wider tyre. You may find cracking with enthusiastic cornering...

Islipminor - what torsion bars are you running? Marina, or new uprated ones?

[bmcecosse]

I too would worry about 'banding' a standard Minor wheel (IF it is legal?) because of the thin centre. I think even the 4.5J van wheels have thicker centres....... Decent set of alloys would seem to be a better way to go.

[simmitc]

When considering wide rear wheels you have to consider a couple of practical points (apart from those raised above): Your new wide spare wheel will not fit in the existing storage space. Yo need two spates - one for the wide rears and one for the narrow fronts. If you want the car purely for show, then you don't have to worry. If the car is going to be used, then I recommend carrying the correct spares. Remember that you cannot mix different size tyres on the same axle.

PS, the cars are pretty cool without wide wheels, but personal choice rules.

[bmcecosse]

Slightly wider van wheels are allowed.......

[simmitc]

[IslipMinor]

the stronger front torsion bars you have fitted

It has had Marina Van torsion bars since the restoration 15 years ago, but ran standard torsion bars for the 27 years before that, when the suspension was first lowered in early 1971.

[chrisryder]

Thanks. Do you know what thickness they are?

[rayofleamington]

We don't judge, just try to offer the best advice possible

Well I guess you can make your own mind up about people judging - I would disagree with that comment regarding a very small minority, but wholeheartedly agree with the second part.

We're all just people and we all have our own preferences. The internet is great for expression but terrible for getting a shared understanding of personality. Minor owners are "in general" the most varied bunch you will ever find covering all demographics, ages, and preferences. Therefore it can be rare to reach an agreement about anything to do with modifications.

As per the previous comment about modifying the rear bump stops - I have done the same, and your target of 1.5" lower is about the limit as the rear suspension doesn't give much travel and there's not a lot to play with.
Make sure the bump stops remain tapered as just 'chopping the ends off' stops them being as progressive. You won't be able to avoid some increase of load to the body stop (especially if you drive over something big, at speed - usually by accident e.g. when it fell off a skip lorry... been there done that!) but it really is worth trying to keep the bump stop rubber working as it was meant to.
Also you'll need to keep a careful eye on the axle bump stop condition as they can perish / fall apart (new ones are not always good either!). With less travel and a missing rubber, the bodywork can get smashed to smithereens fairly rapidly.
This part of the shell isn't too difficult to repair so if the body area is rotten and weak, it's MUCH better to do preventative work than wait until it's smashed and then try and fix it!

The same goes with the front bump stops - I had both rubbers disintegrate whilst doing non-tarmac roads in West Africa. A few days later we had a mishap that took the car 'a few' feet airbourne. We didn't land nicely and on one front corner the suspension smacked through the inner wing and the overtravel yeilded the torsion bar (i.e. the suspension height dropped on that corner).

As for banded wheels - only a few places in the country are good at this (my definition of good is they do it right and have suitable liability insurance for their work) , and you still end up with a non-tubeless rim (Minor rims don't have the safety beads). For wider wheels the better option is for ones where the original inner is used with a modern outer, and many wouldn't be able to spot it. The price of these was around the same price as a good set of banded wheels from a reputable firm.

[IslipMinor]

Chris,

They are 21mm diameter, which I don't think is not much different to the standard Minor. I took them off the Marina van in a scrap yard many years ago, and if the heat treatment is similar, then they will be stiffer by the difference in cross-sectional area, but I don't have a standard Minor torsion bar to measure.

N.B. This is wrong, the difference in torsional stiffness is proportional to the difference in polar moment of inertia - see later post for the actual calculation

Does anyone have an accurate measure of the standard bar?