Replace all floor or patch it?

[bjbrownie]

I think all of this encouragement has put nam on the path to Moggy enlightenment - but beware, the road has many twists and turns..........!!

[nam]

Thanks MarkyB great help. And bjbrownie don't worry i'm certainly under no illusions as to the amount of work needed and after reading the link from LouiseM I will be very cautious and think out the work that needs doing befoe doing it. As alway's I will be taking plenty of pictures and putting them up.

edit doors 98% rust free [frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

4 rust free doors ??? Quite a find ! Take good care of them....... And don't dump your old doors - someone will want to 'refresh' them.

[Mollymooz]

How are we getting on ?

[nam]

How are we getting on ?

Hi,

Well I have managed to get her heart pumping again (Engine started woo hoo). Next I was hoping to get the brakes fitted, hopefully in the next few days. So then at least I can move her out of the garage without getting a backache each time...

Most of the "tools" have arrived, including the wire wheel and some overalls, googles, breathing mask. Yet to pickup a welder but shouldn't be too long now. I have also been looking at what thickness sheet metal to get. I've been reading some other posts on this forum and was thinking about 0.9mm and some 1.5mm. Would that cover most work, say if I started making some of the pieces myself. Like the boot floor, spring hanger metal, possibly crossmember ends? I saw pictures of your project too

[bjbrownie]

I bought most of my parts from ESM, and they were relatively easy to fit-I wouldn't personally try to make panels/ sections up, but there are very skilled metal workers on here who can, but buy a sheet of metal for small patching purposes.
For access, get the car up on 2 pairs of ramps, face them in opposite directions to stop any tendency for the car to move and you'll get good all round access to the floor,sills and chassis sections.Martha's getting there, still a long way to go but made a damn sight easier to work on after rolling the old girl on her side, I recommend this method if you don't have access to a roller spit thingy! [frame][/frame]No messing around underneath this way

[nam]

Nice one. This thread is interesting. So many pictures for ideas. I could.never get her on her side as I have no means of taking the engine and gearbox out. Safest bet for me is just get under it. I will order a sheet of metal and get practising.

[bjbrownie]

I thought the same nam, but the more you delve into Minor repair, it becomes a lot easier to remove parts to gain space and access to other components. The gearbox is relatively light being mostly aluminium and I pulled it out through the car after removing the transmission cover tunnel- removed the clutch & flywheel in situ and myself and a mate lifted the small engine lump out with a length of wood and the cars scrap seat belts! Obviously you have to check that this is within your capability, and all removed parts will have to be carefully labelled and stored for later-in hindsight, I think that stripping the the car down gives you the best chance to do a good renovation which is the aim, but it's your car and your call! [frame][/frame]Cave man handling tactic worked well-flywheel placed back in place for storage

[bmcecosse]

The engine slides out easily over the front crossmember - after removing the radiator and front panels , obviously. Just put a trolley jack under - roll it forward then wriggle it off the jack and over the crossmember - catching it again on the outside with the trolley jack. Simples! The gearbox is then easily lowered on the trolley jack - and run out from under the car. No heavy lifting involved...... You WILL need the car on it's side to do floors etc satisfactorily.....

[MarkyB]

Well said, that's how I removed my engine to recondition it.
Also having the car on it's side is by far the best plan, having red hot metal falling on you and working in a very restricted space gets old really fast!

[nam]

Message I'm getting is you lot are not going to be happy till I take this car totally apart into pieces and rebuild . Haha my garage is going to need a full clearout now...

So tell me what pieces will I remove to give me an idea of space needed.

[bmcecosse]

Doors/boot/bonnet/petrol tank (store outdoors...) and all trim obviously - leave the headlining at your peril - it WILL be burned by weld/grind spatter if you leave it -or try to find a way to mask it off carefully... wiring harness too is best removed - at least the section running to the back, and engine/gearbox - drain the rear axle, remove the battery and drain the brake fluid if there is any left in it....... Then, after lunch......

[nam]

Do I HAVE to remove the engine and gearbox to tip it on it's side (Is it just to keep the weight down when tipping it?) I have worked out I have enough room if they stay in the car or am I asking for trouble. Headlining is shot already and i've got my missus ready to make me a new one.

I'm happy enough to strip everything else off.

[bjbrownie]

Before you roll the car body over, you need to repair/replace the outer sills & boxing sections, and the inner wings in front of the door hinge panels as these will take most of the cars weight when on its side-I replaced the floor pans whilst it was up on ramps as access was good, and if you haven't braced the shell by the door apertures do it now( I used the lower sill outer section) and then you can roll it after removing the rear axle and road springs- I took all the glass out bar the windscreen as the seals needed replacing anyway, and the doors if they're not already off, steering rack can stay as well as the front suspension-you'll have taken the wings off to avoid damage if you're keeping them.
I singlehandedly rolled the car over, they'res not that much weight in it-with the passenger side front wheel off the car is easy enough to push over by lifting the sill and pushing on the top of the door aperture carefully, I rolled it gently onto a large cardboard box filled with cardboard strips and no, I'm 51,not Superman and I didn't get a hernia or put my back out!
The key is to get as much weight out of the Moggy and be very careful when doing it, if in doubt get assistance.
PS, I put a large sheet of thick cardboard under the passenger side that I rolled it on to, makes shuffling it around end at a time to get it close to the garage wall ( giving you more space to work in ) easier.[frame][/frame]

[bjbrownie]

Quite a bit further on now, all underside welding complete (the lethal wire angle grinder brush found/made a few holes), and Martha's had 2 nice thick coats of Hammerite paint to seal the underneath after using seam sealer on all the joins.
Just cleaning up the front suspension parts now,degreasing and repainting, new trunnions were fitted recently in the past so no expense there!
Rolling her over onto the other side this week to check that I haven't missed any bits that were upside down, looking forward to stripping and cleaning the axle and springs so I can get her back on 4 wheels again-done all the heavy work just as the temperature starts to drop in the garage.......... [frame][/frame]And the picture appears upside down again!

[MarkyB]

Do I HAVE to remove the engine and gearbox to tip it on it's side

No you don't, it makes it all a bit lighter and will reduce the risk of stuff leaking, increase the amount of Wheetabix needed to get it over is all really.
Use a trolley jack to get it started, reduces the amount of effort needed.

[nam]

Looking good bjbrownie!

Well since my little break I have been eating weetabix and fruit and nut as much as possible so am feeling fit!

I have a clarke 130en welder arriving on the weekend and am ready to seriously start on this project. I had someone from a garage look and give me a quote for work..... He said most of the hard work is the floor and bracing the car, not too worried about the spring hangers etc. So I am doing it myself with as much help as I can get. I'm waiting till sunday as i've seen a 4 door shell on Ebay with the floors done by the looks of it and have someone from the forum going to check it out for me before I decide. Otherwise my list of parts to order is ready.

I did have one question, should I go for the half floors from charles wares which are 45.90 each or 4 1/4 panels which only save me like £20 overall. Which of the two is easier to weld really. I had concerns about the half floor as it looks like I would have to cut out the inner sill step too? Whereas mine looks to me fairly solid.

[bjbrownie]

Good to see you cracking on with the work nam,I knew about the full floor but as the inner sills on Martha were mostly ok figured to use the 1/4 panels and trim them down accordingly to fit, only on the passenger rear 1/4 did I actually leave most of the repair panel flange. On my car the crossmember was not secured to the outer sill on both sides, so having the 1/4 panels did make it a bit easier to line up with the inner sill & crossmember-not sure how easy it would be when working with a full length panel, someone on the forum may have done it and can point out the way,but I did think it was easier doing a bit at a time,and yes, the panels don't fit exactly, quite a bit of fettling to be done around the front toe board and inner sill area,I found pop riveting the panel temporarily in place and then plug & seam welding where necessary worked well.
And be wary welding the inner seat securing brackets to the front floor pan sections before securing them into the car- one of mine was very close to the inner chassis rail.
Also, when I removed the old floor,rust had eaten up to 1/4" of the existing floor pan up to the forward spring hanger mount on one side leaving the new panel short at one point in a 4" length,a patch had to be put in here-a lot of hammer work was done to move the new panel as far back as possible so the spring hanger bracket goes under it-it was then bolted in place after grinding the factory rivets off, then trimming the panel where it goes over the crossmember,could be tricky if you're using a full length floor panel to get it into place,on the 1/4 panel there was loads to trim off to make a good butt fixing to the rear panel on top of the crossmember.
Be prepared for lots of trial fittings and trimmings either way. [frame][/frame]PS pictures upside down again but shows how bad the floor pan can rot causing extra work

[loosewheels]

Hi there, I'm in the same situation as you, (or was two months ago) car needed welding, bought a welder but no idea how to weld, so.................I looked for a course at college, found a 15 week one evening a week 6-9pm mig welding course, started in September just passed C&G level 1 welding. had to drive out of my area as my local college didn't do it, but now I'm more confident to weld my car, I notice you are in Leeds, they have a good car bodywork dep't have a look if they do evening welding courses, they really helped me and I think they may help you to. once I have done the welding, I will be looking at bodywork courses regarding paint spraying. thing is once learned nobody can take it away from you !!! good luck.

[nam]

Hi there, I'm in the same situation as you, (or was two months ago) car needed welding, bought a welder but no idea how to weld, so.................I looked for a course at college, found a 15 week one evening a week 6-9pm mig welding course, started in September just passed C&G level 1 welding. had to drive out of my area as my local college didn't do it, but now I'm more confident to weld my car, I notice you are in Leeds, they have a good car bodywork dep't have a look if they do evening welding courses, they really helped me and I think they may help you to. once I have done the welding, I will be looking at bodywork courses regarding paint spraying. thing is once learned nobody can take it away from you !!! good luck.

Yep! Bet there is a lot of people in the same position. Leeds does have a lot of courses on car restoration, welding, paint spraying etc so I did look for a course but as you said this one also went in September so I missed it. http://www.lcb.ac.uk/courses/232/part-t ... ing-skills

My welding mask etc will all arrive during the week so I will just start having a go, do a lot of reading as well. I would ideally like to have the car MOT passed for the summer, doubt I will have it all finished nice just driveable.