Starter motor not engaging

[Emleyowl]

The starter motor packed in 2 weeks so I ordered a new one.Fitted it and it started first time.went to start it again and it won't engage. Taken it off twice and it starts once then nothing.Also as there are two ways it can be fitted is it necessary to put it in with the live feed to the inner or outer side of the engine?

[philthehill]

Do you have an electrical solenoid or a cable operated starter pull?
It may be the electrical solenoid is not working as it should be.
Early solenoids had a rubber cover over the end and if pressed the starter would engage. If you have the electrical solenoid are you able to press the end and engage the starter?
If it works well by pressing the end either the solenoid connections or the solenoid itself is faulty.
As regards the live feed - the preference is to have the live feed away from the block.
Also check your return strap between engine/gearbox and body is in place and has good connections.
Make sure that your battery is fully charged and is capable of turning the engine over more than the once.
Phil

[oliver90owner]

What checks did you carry out to decide the starter motor was at fault, before replacing it? As PTH says, your fault was/is likely with the electrics other than the starter.

In the 'bad old days' the first check would be to connect jump leads to the battery earth side and starter motor fixing/body and battery live direct to the starter connection. Rather sparky, but soon tested the basics - starter motor and battery.

You say 'not engaging'. Can you describe that more fully? The bendix may not be thrown out sufficiently to engage the flywheel, or starter motor not turning at all.

The outsider may be a badly worn ring gear - or so damaged that the bendix is sticking in mesh.

[Emleyowl]

It is a 1966 model so I reckon its the electrical type.the solenoid seems to have button in the middle but is too hard to press.when I replaced the starter motor it was making a loud noise and when I removed it the teeth were well worn.

[philthehill]

From your description the flywheel teeth are shot and the engine will require a new flywheel or at min a new starter ring gear.
Phil

[Emleyowl]

What I mean with not engaging is that on turning over after replacing the starter the starter motor starts as it should but on subsequent attempts it just 'Whirrs' as if the Bendix is not engaging.the battery is fine and I have tried it with jumpleads from my van.the flywheel teeth look fine looking n the hole where the starter is positioned.it just seems curious that it engages every time I replace the starter.

[Emleyowl]

I meant the teeth on the starter were worn.I will take pictures and post tomorrow.

[bmcecosse]

The whirr pretty much confirms what Phil says above - the teeth on the flywheel have worn away... Next time it does this - turn the engine 90 degrees by hand and then try again.

[Emleyowl]

I've tried turning the engine at various degrees but it still Whirrs.I have taken a few photos .[frame][/frame]
These are the old and new ones.[frame][/frame]
This the old one which has broken[frame][/frame]
This is a picture of the teeth

[IslipMinor]

Oh this could be interesting!!

The starter was new 14 years ago, and we are currently in Ireland on the Euroclassic classic car run. On Monday this week we had exactly the same problem when in the Ferry queue in Holyhead - the starter just whirred. Had a push start and got on to the ferry. Another push start to get off and the same the following morning. During the day started perfectly normally, so the service back-up people removed the starter in the evening, cleaned the Bendix drive, which was very slightly sticky, replaced it and bingo all fine again.

Until the next morning - just whirred again, so another push start and fine during the day. This morning, up early, tried to start it and all fine, but removed it and cleaned the Bendix again and it just whirred! Battery voltage checked, connections checked, it's a pull start so tried linking the pull start connections together, turning the engine 90° and always the same - just whirred. The flywheel teeth were checked about 1,000 miles, while the whole car was apart, and are in perfect condition.

New starter ordered today, next day courier to the west coast of Ireland that cost more than the starter itself. Again during the day all fine.

Until I read this I was confident that the solution lay in a new starter, now not so sure!!

[philthehill]

Thank you for posting the photos

Whilst the visible teeth on the flywheel do not look too bad from this angle they may be more worn when examined closely and in poor condition all around the flywheel.

Try the starter when it is held tightly in a vice and see if the Bendix flies forward when the power is applied.

Make sure that the Bendix comes forward enough to engage with the teeth on the ring gear.

When fitting the Minor starter motor to my 1380cc 'A' Series I had to pack the starter so as to bring it forward sufficient to engage the Bendix with the flywheel teeth. Whilst you should not have to pack the starter the engagement of the starter Bendix with the flywheel must be checked.'

If you have the ability to strip the new Bendix I would do so and check that it is all in place - if you do not have the facilities - do not attempt to strip as the Bendix spring is under considerable load.

[Emleyowl]

Just been down to garage to refit the starter.started first time and then whirred on restart.starting to think that the starter Bendix is not moving as it should and taking it out and replacing it puts it in the right position.As the starter is brand new from ESM I don't really want to strip it down.

[philthehill]

That is the beauty of having the starter in the vice you can see what is happening.

[Emleyowl]

Tried it on the floor and it doesn't hardly move.could it be a duff new starter motor.

[oliver90owner]

If it 'whirs' but does not engage, it may well be insufficient current at atart up - it needs sufficient energy/impulse to throw the dog into mesh. It can be mechanical (tight on the shaft or bent) but is likely electrical - insufficient voltage at the starter. Check voltage drops in the circuit. Some contact may be heating up, for instance, due to high resistance. I can think of eight possibles - and the resistance of several will be cumulative.

[philthehill]

When on the floor does the starter motor turn over at a respectable speed?
Are you able to move the Bendix forward on the Bendix internal quick screw by hand? It should move easily towards the starter motor main body.

[Emleyowl]

What I can't fathom iis why every time I refit it it starts no problem but after that it won't start.its as though the Bendix is stuck away from the cogs.
When I try it off the car the Bendix didn't jolt into position like I imagined it would.I can move the Bendix by hand though but it is not really easy.I have tried cleaning it with brake cleaner.

[philthehill]

If your Bendix is not working as it should be - take the starter motor back to the supplier - spell out the problems and ask for an exchange.
It may be that the Bendix is tight as it is new and/or maybe a bit of machining swarfe is caught up inside - only dismantling the Bendix will determine what is wrong.
Checking the spare Bendix I have everything moves very easily with no friction or stiffness.

[Emleyowl]

I have emailed ESM about my problem and am awaiting there reply.Is there anything I could try to loosen it with in the meantime?

[philthehill]

Try and free off the Bendix by putting some 3 in one oil down the bendix and work the Bendix backwards and forwards and see if you can make the Bendix free moving.
Wash with brake cleaner if and when free and before refitting the starter motor - any oil left will attract clutch dust and the Bendix will eventually stick.