Wheel width questions...

[TomLS]

Hi there,

I'm looking at getting wider wheels for my Moggy - at present she skids rather easily, and the engine power is going to be approximately doubled in the next few months...
I hate alloys on a Minor (sorry to any with them - but each to their own), and 4.5" wheels just don't seem worth the money for only another inch, so I'm going to get mine banded up to 6" (or maybe 5.5" - again, I'm not a fan of arch extensions)

My question is - where would the band go? There appears to be quite a bit of space inboard of the wheel, but I'm not really up for getting the wheels cut twice (it will cost twice as much!) I suppose the outside would be the right place - but am I likely to get rubbing issues on the front wheel arch?
The car is not lowered - in fact my intention is to keep her looking as standard as possible.

Many thanks,
Tom.

[bmcecosse]

By adding all the width on the outside - you are putting the tyre contact patch too far out. The tyre will be rolling in an arc when you turn the steering - rather then simply pivoting on the spot.... it will make for strange handling and braking - and tyre wear. and of course heavy steering!

[IslipMinor]

We have had 5.5" x13" wheels on the Minor for 40+ years - the ET is ~20/22mm, and we get a little bit of contact on full bump between the outside of the rear tyres and the return on the upper part of the rear wing arch. At the same time there is only ~15mm clearance between the inside of the front tyres and the upper trunnion body, and this is with Midget disk hubs fitted that push the wheel out by around 10mm. This all means that without flaring the wings to allow the wheel to come outwards more, 5.5" width is really the maximum.

The combination of the Midget disk hub, the wider wheels and the spacing out of the lower suspension arm to correct the camber angle results in the front wheels being 2" (50mm) further out each side than standard. i.e. track has increased by 4" (100mm). the rear has less increase as it is only the additional wheel rim width and offset that increases the track.

The steering is slight heavier at a standstill (another effect of spacing out the lower arm is to increase the castor angle by about 1°, which helps straight line stability, but makes parking a bit heavier).

[TomLS]

Okay, thanks for the info.

I think, that due to the forgotten issue with tubeless wheel beads, and the aforementioned large offset, that I'm going to buy some ESM 4.5J steels and fit 165/70's, and maybe get these banded at a later date.

Tom.

[bmcecosse]

165 is a bit too wide for 4.5J wheels and will be 'wobbly' - 155 are perfect.

[TomLS]

Many seem to have 155's on 3.5" rims with no problem, and I've read of many with 165's on 4.5J's. They are even recommended by ESM.
A lot of other people use 175/65R14's on 4.5J's, and on heavier cars with a long history of no problems, so I can't see how 165's with a 70 profile (approximately the same OD) would be wobbly, or how adding 1 inch to the rim, and less than one inch to the tread with no increase in sidewall could make things wobbly. Also I've found a few tyre manufacturers that 'certify' 175/70R14 tyres for use with 4.5J rims.
Plus, I can't justify having only an extra 4cm of tread all the way round for the cost of 4 rims and 4 tyres - it totally defeats the object; more grip!

[bmcecosse]

You didn't say you were contemplating 70 section tyres. 175 will be FAR TOO wide - even in 70 section.... And I can assure you that 155/80 tyres on 3.5" rims are terrible.........

[TomLS]

Aye I had figured that 175's would be rather sloppy! I was thinking 70 section 165's, because they match the current 145R14's pretty well for diameter, and I like the stock look. I had just assumed that 165/80's were rather too big for the arches, and 75 profiles seem a little hard / expensive to find.

[Matt]

Minor Developments offered wider wheels - I believe they were 14" transit wheels with the minor center grafted in. These would be 5.5J and avaliable off the shelf.

Transits ran either 185 or 195 (80 profile) tyres on 5.5J and 215/225 70 on 6J wheels.

I have 5.5J on my minor with 185/65/14 (they are montego wheels as I have marina brakes and rear axle). I don't get any rubbing.

[mike.perry]

I have been running 155/80/14 tyres on standard Series MM rims for 35 years with no problems.

[TomLS]

Mike - thats exactly what I thought!

Matt - I had heard about the MD wheels, but apparently they don't make them any more? I couldn't even find a website or a number the other day when I looked. Please tell me i'm wrong!

[mike.perry]

John Vine, Minor Developments 01562 747718. Leave message on answerphone if necessary. No website or email

[bmcecosse]

Of course you CAN run 155/80 tyres on 3.5" rims - believe me - it handles like a blancmange.......

[IslipMinor]

As a simple guide the maximum useful rim/tyre combinations are:

3.5" - 145
4.0" - 155
4.5" - 165
5.0" - 175
5.5" - 185
6.0" - 195

Going up up a tyre size will likely give more sloppy handling - Roy's blancmange!

Going down a tyre size or even 2 will give more support and tighter handling. I would think that with a 70 series tyre you might get away with 1 tyre size up better than with an 80 series?

As a note we have a 155/80x13 on our 3.5" spare wheel and a used it a couple of times at fairly low speeds and it did the job.

[mike.perry]

Of course you CAN run 155/80 tyres on 3.5" rims - believe me - it handles like a blancmange.......

OH NO IT DOESN'T!!

[bmcecosse]

Mike -seriously - I drove mine like that for a few years - I know it does.......even with tyres pumped up to 36 psi. It's SO much better with the same tyres on the wider wheels.... I would never go back - neither would you!!