TYPE 9 WOES

Post by **PAULJ** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Hi all, Can anyone please help with this. Got the moggy MOTd today after my 3 year nut and bolt restoration. Driving it to the MOT station has been the first time I have had the opportunity to drive it. I have fitted a 5 speed type 9 which was bought second hand but reconditioned. I have no reason to suspect anything else. It was clean and oil free. The problem is, it wont select 4th. All the other gears are fine. It feels like its going in but when the clutch is lifted, what a noise. If I jack up the wheel and engage 4th, turn the wheel the teeth crunch so its just not going in to gear. Any ideas would be gratefully received.
Thanks

Post by **Mogwai** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:35 pm

If you try to put it in gear with the engine running & the clutch up does it baulk against the syncro or crunch?
Also could be something jamming 4th gear or something worn or loose on the selector . once the floor is removed its easy to remove the top cover on the box to have a look inside, just don't run it with the top off as it will empty itself of oil very quickly

Post by **PAULJ** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:04 pm

I have taken the cover off and checked, every thing look ok. The selector seems to work and the gear seems to engage. The only thing I can see is that on forth the baulk ring spins freely on the shaft unlike the others. It also appears very slack. By working the leaver and spinning the elevated rear wheel it did go in once. I then started the engine and it span the wheel ok, took it out and back in, lifted the clutch and nasty nasty crunching

Post by **Mogwai** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:12 pm

the baulk ring will only be able to move a few degrees ether direction on the shaft & definitely shouldn't spin

Post by **PAULJ** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:26 pm

thats prity much what I thought, Pull apart time I think. What and how does the baulk ring secure ?
Thanks

Post by **Mogwai** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:58 pm

the baulk ring will locate loosely into the fixed hub & the synchro cone on 4th gear the shafts will need removing to get at it.
If you haven't already got one a pre 89 Sierra Haynes manual has got good exploded diagrams & overhaul procedures in it

Post by **PAULJ** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:00 pm

Thanks for your help. Tool box back out!!!

Post by **PAULJ** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:40 pm

hi all again. Well managed to find another box for free. All the gears seem to be working. I was told that it came from a 2.4 Sierra diesel.
I cant find any info on this box. I would like to confirm the ratios. Does anyone know the ratios and weather it will run ok with a 4.2 diff.
Thanks

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:21 pm

By "googling" it appears the overwhelming majority say yes, all same except the 2.8 version which has a longer input shaft

Post by **Mogwai** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:22 pm

I'm not sure if the diesel has the same ratios as the petrol one . my box came from a petrol sierra & I run with a 4.22 diff which cruises nicely in 5th on the motorway
this gear calculator is useful & has type 9 ratios loaded on it already
http://www.locost7.info/gearcalc.php

Post by **PAULJ** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:45 pm

thanks for the reply's. I got the box off tonight and will fit the new one tomorrow. This may be common knowledge but you cant a type 9 box off on its own. If however you take the steering rack off first it will come off. A small point i noticed is if the box was bolted to the bell housing instead of the other way round it would be a piece of wee wee to remove. I also have a concentric slave fitted and while it works very well there was hydraulic oil in the BH What is used generally for hydraulic clutch operation ie thrust bearing and slave. Thanks

Post by **Mogwai** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:18 pm

are you using a concentric slave cylinder ? this is something I've been thinking of doing for a while now. if so what setup are you using any pictures?

Post by **Matt** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:09 pm

A diesel box will have the long input shaft afaik.

Post by **PAULJ** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:47 pm

Thats right, Found that out just a bit too late. The 2.3 and 2.8 have a longer input shaft

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:02 pm

are you using a concentric slave cylinder ? this is something I've been thinking of doing for a while now.

If you've got the type 9 release bearing you'd be better off with the concentric slave. If you use the Ford release bearing it needs to be concentric with the clutch cover.

Mogwai,
Quite impressed with your gearbox knowledge!

As for the damaged box - the baulk ring should not be able to move far enough so that the points line up with the next ring. IE it should always be peak to valley.

Post by **ian.mcdougall** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:17 pm

Hi all
would it be possible to helicoil the holes in the bell housing and bore out the threads in the gearbox to fit larger bolts from the outside and you would be able to take the box from the bell housing
Ian

Post by **PAULJ** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:53 pm

Ok, this is what happened. I have used the mondaeo concentric slave. If you use this you have to make an adaptor plate to mount it on to the back of the bell housing. What I didn't realise was you need the input bearing cover less the tube. This cover is the only thing holding the input shaft in and without it the shaft will have lots of end float. You know this has happened because, YOU LOSE 4TH GEAR!!!!
I removed the bell housing, pushed the shaft back in. Re fitted the bearing cover , less the tube and it all works lovely. If you have this set up and haven't used the cover its just the tightness of the bearing holding every thing together. Thanks for the reply's and if you can use a type 9 box from a 2.3, (long shaft ) let me kno
Also you could fit wheel studs in the bell housing but there isn't enough room on the gearbox flange for nuts.