Telescopic shoc absorber conversions

[Minornut59]

Hello all.

I have been reading the various posts (mostly all about 7 years old now) about converting to telescopic shock absorbers and have looked at the kits available.

I am not sure what route to go but i would like to do this without spending a fortune; a lot of the kits seem expensive for what they are and i am not convinced that a lot of them are 100% brilliant in the way they mount.

REAR: it seems to me that getting the rear shocks vertical would be the best option but that would mean ether having very short dampers located somewhere inboard of the rear axle bump stop and trying to mount to a 50 year old floor not designed for the purpose, or mounting them on the rear inner wing and thus welding some kind of stregthener and mounting into the rear inner wing, like a turret as found on Minis at the rear.
I don't like the idea of bolting a crossmember to the boot floor to carry loads it is not designed for.

I was thinking that if van mounting plates were used on the axle then a telescopic shock could be fitted between that and the existing link arm pin on the rear spring hanger section of the body? This is designed for some load already. The disadvantage is that the shock would be at an angle pointing backwards.

What do others think?

FRONT.

I see that its necessary to utilise the existing damper as a link, but do the kits as sold mean a mounting plate is sandwiched between the armstrong and the bulkhead? This would push the armstrong forward by several mm. I take it this won't affect geometry?

Would it be necessary to chop out some inner wing to fit these?

I am tempted to make my own brackets here as they are only plate steel. The idea of mounting them this way doesn't appeal hugely. Has anyone welded a bracket to the inner wing on the end of the bulkhead cross member instead? Minis have their front shockers mounted in this way and they seem to work alright.

At the lower end, i take it the kits use another plate bolted through the lower arm to carry the mounting?

If i were to make my own, what shocks would fit front and rear sizewise?

Comments and suggestions welcome please..

[bmcecosse]

I suggest you forget the whole idea.......as you mention - the rear kits are not clever, and the front kits with the silly 'sandwich' plate do move the top link forward - and the mount is hardly engineering perfection........ Just drain your lever arm dampers and refill them with SAE 40 or 50 oil (not 20W50) and you will not be disappointed at the result..... After all - lever arm dampes are just 'folded up' teledampers ! If you plan on modifying the car for competition use, then properly engineered 'weld on' kits are of course available from JLH - but they are not inexpensive.

[IslipMinor]

We have Koni ajustable telescopics front and rear, which work very well indeed. The fronts were re-valved by Koni to increase the damping by 30% and are set on 'full hard', and the rears are on '1/4 hard' at most.

The Koni kit does not use the existing lever arm mounts at the front at all, they have a separate mount bolted on to the inner front wing with reinforcing plates on the inside - they have been there for 15 years and ~50,000 miles, so can't be that bad a design!

At the rear, there is not enough room between the tyre (5.5" rims with 185/70x13 tyres) and the inner wing to mount them, and I didn't want turrets intruding into the boot space - it's small enough as it is. The Koni kit had them connected from the spring plate back to the original lever damper body mount, but they would be lying too horizontal (particularly as the car is lowered), so I made up a crossmember that goes right across under the boot floor, which means that the rears are inclined inwards at the top at about 35°. Theoretically not ideal, but in practice works extremely well.

As a first step, I would definitely do as Roy suggets and drain, flush and refill the standard lever arms with SAE 40 or 50 oil first - it makes a huge difference.

[Minornut59]

I should add that i am fitting an Mg Midget 1275cc engine and possibly a type 9 gearbox as well as Marina discs so with the extra stopping power i would think uprating the shocks is a necessity really.

Woul SAe 40 in the front lever arms really be sufficient with that set up? I read that Charles Ware's Morris Minor centre carried out tests that said the Minor destabilised easily under hard braking on the lever arm set up with discs and 1275 power.

[IslipMinor]

I can't immediately see that just changing to telescopic dampers would improve braking stability in comparison to lever arms in good condition?

I would have thought that it would be well worth while trying the 40 oil and see how it behaves. I would also fit polyurethane bushes to all the suspension - that makes a big difference too. Then I would fit an antiroll bar to the front - I know the theory says that it should create more understeer, but in practice it makes the car more stable, and fun to drive, which is a good thing!

What wheels/tyres are you planning to fit?

[Trickydicky]

Hi,

You could try fitting these, http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 1620ff7ef5

I have a set on my saloon and I must say I have noticed a big differnce in handling and ride quality.

[bmcecosse]

Good old Charles Ware - and their 'braking test'.... I can't see dampers have anything to do with it, and how does '1275 power' affect braking anyway??? But incorrect brake force distribution front/rear will!! And discs on front with standard 7" drums on the rear may just be the cause of that. The more viscous oil DOES make a huge difference - flush it through a couple of times before closing up. You can also twiddle the valves - but frankly I found this made v little difference - if any. The oil makes a BIG difference. And as above - poly bushes (and a little bit of negative camber) makes a very worthwhile difference to handling and 'stability'... give it a try.

[Minornut59]

Thanks for the suggestions. So is the consensus here that lever arm shocks (with an oil change) with disc brakes will be sufficient with an oil change?? I do feel a bit doubtful but i guess it would save on messing about with kits etc.


1275 power won't affect braking power but i would have thought it was obvious that you need a sharper brake system capable of retarding your speed a bit more as the car will be capable of a higher cruising speed.
Drum brakes are OK for pootling about but the standard Minor set up is only just good enough at speed and you do need a big gap for safety.

My Austin 1300 has a disc and drum set up which works well; that is non servo assisted so i would think that the Minor with a similar set up would be as good. I regularly do 70mph and above and that stops ok.


I will probably stick to standard wheels and tyres, so i don't have to shell out for a set of wheels but although i don't like alloy wheels as a rule, have thought about getting some 14's that will enable me to fit wider sections tyres.


As for poly bushes, i won't use those. I fitted a set to my Minor some time ago, did not notice any improvement and they wore out in no time which left the thing trembling all over the place so i refiited a new set of rubber bushes and it was much better. I was not impressed by poly bushes and i think the rubber bushes give the car more 'feel'.

[Minornut59]

Hi,

You could try fitting these, http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 1620ff7ef5

I have a set on my saloon and I must say I have noticed a big differnce in handling and ride quality.

Interested in those.
I wonder HOW they are uprated inside? Not just thicker oil i take it??

[IslipMinor]

I wonder HOW they are uprated inside? Not just thicker oil i take it??

From a set bought in the very early 70's, all they had done was to fit a couple of small washers under the valve spring, to 'stiffen it up a bit'. Only found this out when I took the valve out in 1998, when I fitted the Koni's! I will post a picture if I can find the offending valves.

I am intrigued to hear that you found that poly bushes wore out very quickly as that is not the usual experience. I fitted them originally in 1998 as part of the restoration, and on stripping the front suspension recently to fit negative camber eye bolts, I was very surprised to find that the poly bushes in the eye bolts were as near perfect as possible. I had already bought new poly bushes on the assumption that after ~50,000 miles and numerous track days etc., they would be well worn, but they were not.

Must be worth trying just some thicker oil first?

[Alex'n'Ane]

The best solution is the JLH kit, http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/, however i have the bolt on esm style front kit fitted, and I find it works very well, definite improvement over standard re-filled dampers. It gives you the front end balance you need when cornering. Tele damper kits are also adjustable, which makes a big difference. Drums will fade, discs will not. And as you said, you will not need to fit a servo when you fit drums. If you want to stick with steel wheels, you can get wider (van) steel wheels for the minor.

[philthehill]

Before you could get uprated dampers I used to remove the damper valve un-solder the nut - screw it up a bit re-solder and refit to the valve and re-fill the damper with straight 30 engine oil. 100% improvement. Did it to both front and back dampers. Cheap and effective!
I agree with BMC change the oil in the dampers and you will see an improvement in the handling provided the rest of the suspension is serviceable.

[Trickydicky]

I was fortunate enough to get a pair 2nd hand so did not pay full price for them. They are different from the std damper in that the bore of each piston is a larger.
I would recommend replacing the oil though, its the one upgrade you can do on a minor cheaply with good results. I used SAE 30 oil from the lawn mower section of B+Q.

[bmcecosse]

Just because a Minor has a 1275 engine - doesn't mean it can go faster - it can only do 70 mph whatever engine is fitted!! 8" drum brakes in GOOD condition are very adequate for road use - yes, the early 7" drums will stop the car (refer to early road tests - they show 1G) , but they can fade out easily. And of course (regulars will be waiting for this) the 9" drums are superb and very 'affordable'..... By far the biggest limiting factor on my car is tyre to road adhesion - not brake power.... Try the heavier oil - SAE 40 works very very well. I've twiddled the valves and added washers - but didn't notice any change from that - certainly not compared to the heavier oil. Poly bushes if installed correctly - last 'for ever'.

[Minornut59]

You seem very sure of your facts BMC when it comes to my cars!! In my 25 years experience of messing about with cars, i have found poly bushes not all they are cracked up to be. Rubber bushes last fairly well and are what the torsion bar set up is designed for, after all. The poly bushes i used on my 59 Minor (which does not go fast!) lasted all of six months to a year so i replaced them with rubber and the cars has been riding on those now for 12 years.
It still handles sharply and 'feels' right which it never did when it had poly bushes fitted. Those seemed to give it a harsher ride and once they wore out there was insufficient give in them which resulted in severe trembling under braking and at speed.

With a 1275 engine fitted a Minor can certainly exceed 70mph; i have been in one as a passenger that was quite happy at speeds approaching a ton. Admittedly it had a few go faster goodies fitted.

I thought about Riley drums but i already have a set of Marina discs, calipers and stuff.
Yes, i agree that road ahesion ay be a factor, hence a thought i had that maybe slightly wider wheels would be a good idea. I did have some van wheels but sold them, which i shouldn't have!!
Hmm, so i think i will try replacing the damper oil; i have loads of good dampers so i will select a pair and do the business to those as you all suggest.

So far then, i am looking at doing the following; lever arm dampers at the front with 40 grade oil in; marina discs and pads,( i need to mod the bearings in those do i not?) and 1275 Midget power.
At the back though, do you still think lever arms only or would you recommend something like an anti-tramp bar to cut down on axle tramp? My 1098 saloon will do that with little provocation on steep corners etc and the increased power from my 1275 engine won't reduce that, will it???!!!

[Minornut59]

Just looked at the JLH kits which look good but i don't want to spend that sort of money!!

[bmcecosse]

The law of the land says you can only do 70 mph.......no matter how big the engine. Everyone else seems to make the poly bushes last pretty much 'for ever' - maybe you got some bad ones.....or didn't lubricate them? Rubber bushes available today are 'not what they used to be' let's just say... Try the 40 (or 50) grade oil - you won't be disappointed I can assure you, certainly in 'value for money' terms. Yes - the rear dampers are a bit on the small side - but are still effective with the heavy oil. I have some larger uprated MGB rear dampers to fit, when I get time to figure out how... 7 leaf Traveller springs (and lowering blocks if then too high) will pretty much sort out axle tramp - unless you actively promote it, in which case you WILL snap a half-shaft. And yes - the JLH damper kits are indeed lovely - and for track or any kind of competition use - they are definitely the way to go!

[Alex'n'Ane]

To be honest, you are better just buying the new hubs from esm, they will then be minor pcd (rather than marina) And are a much better design, the adapter sleeves are no longer as easily available.

[wickermonkey]

speaking about adapter sleeves has anybody got any dimension, I could machine a few up if they have

[philthehill]

The spacers to enable the fitting of Marina hubs onto the Minor stub axle are available from Bull Motif Part No: MOD118.