Engine coolant isn't draining — suggestions?

[oliverlane89]

Evening All

As mentioned in another thread, I'm replacing the water pump on our 1966 Convertible. Started very late today as the Mrs insisted on going to all the local plant sales so really have only got as far as stripping the affected parts out — radiator, hoses, thermostat, water pump.

I've bought a bottle of new blue readymix coolant from the autoparts place so I want to see the engine thoroughly drained, so with (quite significant) difficulty have managed to get the plug out of the engine coolant jacket drain (back of the block on the right).

Problem is, it doesn't seem to be draining. No matter how much water I put in at the front none wants to come out of the back, and I have given it a good old prod with a length of wire as suggested in my Haynes with no real improvement (although a lot of crud has come out!).

Obviously I'd like to get this sorted before I finish putting the new water pump on Tomorrow. Any thoughts welcome!

Thank you all

Oliver

[oliverlane89]

And because pictures are always amusing... Progress!

IMG_20170514_200436.jpg (3.69 MiB) Viewed 2490 times

[firedrake1942]

I see you have resorted to the KARCHER , The blockage must be bad if that cannot shift it. Drain unblocker ?? Car looks very tidy otherwise.

[Nickol]

.....and the bottle of Heinekin on the bumper.

Certainly lots of room to work - for which I am quite envious.

Would it not be more beneficial to have removed the bottom hose from the rad to get all the gunge out?

[martin418]

keep digging ! the passage way goes right across the block , i used a screwdriver to dig mine out in the end

[biomed32uk]

That is a long drilling, that if I remember right it sits just slightly low of the main water jacket, so all of the crud naturally falls into it.

I used a drill in the end, but my engine was on the bench. I don't think you will get a drill in with the engine in situ. It's something around a 5/16 hole that runs all of the way in.

I think an old flat blade screwdriver and a small hammer with some tapping and twisting will do it, assisted with the beer it should do the job

[oliverlane89]

Thanks for the replies all.

Already have the radiator bottom hose off - in fact the whole radiator, water pump, everything is off. But the car is on the ramps for access and I'm worried that some crappy old water (and sediment) is trapped at the back of the block water jacket, thus my insistence in getting it unblocked.

Had to use a breaker bar to get the plug out! Lots of penetrating oil deployed...

Have already given it a good rodding with wire and a screwdriver but I'm just confused. If I feed water into the front of the engine (and block up the water pump hole to prevent escape) not a single drop comes out at the back.

Sadly when draining the oil as part of the job (it hasn't been changed in my ownership certainly) we discovered quite a lot of the dreaded cottage cheese in the oil filler... So my mate who has been helping with the work has persuaded me that as we've got the car half to bits right now, might as well do a head gasket replacement as well!!!

I'm bricking it... The car is promised to my neighbour for his daughter's wedding on Saturday...

I'm just about to drive to the classic car parts place in Exeter for a head gasket set. Any advice on THAT job appreciated as well! Especially the order in which the nuts come off the top... The numbered order diagram in Haynes is EXTREMELY confusing, given some of the order numbers are repeated. How do I loosen two but no.4s at the same time!?

Oliver

IMG_20170514_192138.jpg (3.81 MiB) Viewed 2469 times

[oliverlane89]

I see you have resorted to the KARCHER , The blockage must be bad if that cannot shift it. Drain unblocker ?? Car looks very tidy otherwise.

I wondered what you meant then... But yes, the pressure washer! Did a lovely job cleaning the gunk out of the front of the coolant jacket but nothing at the back.

And thank you! She's a wonderful car but not without her troubles...

[oliverlane89]

That is a long drilling, that if I remember right it sits just slightly low of the main water jacket, so all of the crud naturally falls into it.

I used a drill in the end, but my engine was on the bench. I don't think you will get a drill in with the engine in situ. It's something around a 5/16 hole that runs all of the way in.

I think an old flat blade screwdriver and a small hammer with some tapping and twisting will do it, assisted with the beer it should do the job

I
That's interesting. So with a long screwdriver I am able to get it into the plug hole. A little way (2" perhaps) and then it stops dead. I assumed the passage merely turned a corner at that point and that the blockage was beyond that.

If you're saying that hole goes straight beyond that point I've got one hell of a blockage there... I'd be very reluctant to get a drill in there (sure I have a 90 degree adaptor somewhere) without being sure I was definitely cleaning out gunk and not just boring a hole from the water jacket into the piston casing...

[myoldjalopy]

I have exactly the same issue with my engine block drain. I tried poking around with a screwdriver with no success and, in the end, gave up as the water was clean draining out of the bottom hose and the car runs without problems.
Those deposits in the filler cap don't always mean head gasket is gone - if it drives OK without any clattering and no water in the oil/oil in the water/steam out the exhaust pipe etc. then maybe best left alone. However, I had to do a cylinder head gasket a year ago (which is when I found out about the blocked hole) and there is a rather lengthy thread about that job here, in case you do decide to go ahead: https://www.mmoc.org.uk/Messageboard/vi ... +heaD+NUTS

[oliver90owner]

I'm bricking it... The car is promised to my neighbour for his daughter's wedding on Saturday...

I would be checking compression pressures before pulling anything else apart at this point - perhaps dependent on your, and your mate's, practical abilities - if promised for the weekend.

There can be other reasons for your 'cheesecake' than a failed cyinder head gasket. What are you going to do should you find it needs other remedial action than the head gasket (which may not be faulty)?

Good luck, but remember the old saying of 'there's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip'.

As an aside ( it should not occur on such a modern engine) one engine, where I removed the liners, was completely solid with deposits all around the rear pot. It must have been drained and refilled with hard, or dirty, water over a long period of time. At the time I could not quite understand why I could not remove that liner - until No. 3 was removed and I saw the problem.

[philthehill]

If you can get whatever you are using to prod at the crud into the block by 110mm you are well into the main water gallery.
The drilling from the water drain plug does not go right across the block as it is blocked by the block casting above the rear main.
The water gallery does goes round the rear of No: 4 cylinder but the bottom of that gallery is at a higher level than the drilling for the drain tap/plug.
If you do take the head off you can prod down the rear nearside water block to head transfer passage as it is directly above the drain plug hole and is connected.
I have had the same problem with a small bore block currently under renovation and I had to remove the rear core plug to assist in removing the crud but I do not think that you will have to go that far.

[Budgie]

And because pictures are always amusing... Progress!
IMG_20170514_200436.jpg

It looks as if it's about to take off!

[liammonty]

As mentioned above, I wouldn't be in a rush to do the head gasket on the basis of some mayo in the rocker cover - this is pretty common, especially on the later 1098 cars in my experience, caused by condensation build up on short journeys. Is the oil on the dipstick like mayonnaise too? If not, I'd be surprised if you have a head gasket issue. You're brave tackling it now if you're doing a wedding on the weekend, unless you really need to of course! Good luck for the wedding - I've got to take my Minor from Dartmoor to the South Lakes and back this weekend for a wedding - only a 640 mile round-trip

[oliverlane89]

Well, whether the head gasket needed changing or not is have now been done — tappets finely adjusted, and everything given a good clean. All in an afternoon!

Just need to reassemble the radiator hoses refill fluids after work tonight and I think I'm ready to turn the ignition for the first time in a few days.

Are the fluid capacities are listed in the Haynes correct? I've obviously drained the engine oil and coolant, but did the gearbox as well.

Any advice on amounts I should be putting in (if different to Haynes) and means to avoid airlocks appreciated...

For that matter, any advice on getting the bottom rad hose on appreciated too... the aperture in the hose is TINY compared to the pipe on the water pump is has to fit over..!

Oliver

[oliver90owner]

Now is the time to do a compression test (well, after running and re-torquing). That may tell you whether the engine required other remedial action (such as poor valve seating, warped head) or even more attention (rings, rebore?).

As I see it, you have changed the gasket but not done/checked anything to change the situation, if there was one.

[liammonty]

The capacities stated are roughly correct I think - fill the radiator to the top and run it up to temp with the rad cap off. Top up if required. Airlocks aren't a problem. If the heater runs cold, running at increased revs (or taking the car for a drive) usually sort it. Check the engine oil level with the dipstick . Remember the filter will cause the level to drop a bit once it's primed. Fill the gearbox up to the level plug (with engine oil) simple!

Hope you cleaned the breathers out in the rocker box - if they are blocked, that mayo will be back, even with a new head gasket